Ann Widdecombe on Marr - Gay conversion therapy is no different to changing sex

[lucasthecat]

This morning on Marr - Ann Widdecombe - was being grilled on her previous support on research into gay conversion therapy - her response was interesting - She said it is now accepted that people can change sex - so it’s not that radical for science to explore changing sexual attraction (for those gay people that are unhappy). For the record I don’t think you can change sex or sexual attraction. However you can’t dispute her logic - if something’s are fluid and change - then surely everything is up for grabs - using chemical drugs and surgery - and a large dose of propaganda . Who’d of though Ann widdecombe is super woke

However you can’t dispute her logic - if something’s are fluid and change - then surely everything is up for grabs

Well yes, except Ann Widdecombe and her ilk talk about gay conversion therapy, not sexuality conversion therapy - I doubt she would advocate for such therapies to be available for heterosexuals who would rather be gay. People like her who believe that same-sex attraction is a problem that needs a solution have actually contributed to the rise of gender ideology. She can fuck off.
Transgenderism is the new gay conversion therapy. Once she realises that, she should be fully on board with it.

Once she realises that, she should be fully on board with it.

I think she knows this, which is why she answered as she did.

She's a Brexit MEP. Need I say more?

Remember the GRC's became a thing to 'stop' same sex marriage, transing (converting) homosexuals has always been there as a goal.

The curious thing is AW belief that you can change sexual orientation - is jumped on as horrific homophobia . Whereas the belief you can change sex or can turn a Mans body into a Woman’s body through drugs, surgery or a bit of magic thinking - is seen as the most enlightened beautiful thing - by so many. I believe gay conversion therapy and TWAW - are both bullshit of the highest order - but they have a huge amount in common - al though both sides would claim they are a million miles apart

I think she knows this

I think you're right. In which case it would be interesting to hear what her preferred 'solution' is for young lesbians who are considering transitioning as a way to escape heteronormative pressure and become more acceptable in the eyes of people like her.

Esther McVey might be an amateur in comparison, but I'll wager is possibly more dangerous because she's photogenic and attractive and people don't make a point of discussing her ugly looks as though it makes more of a difference than the ugly views she has espoused while in positions of power.

they have a huge amount in common - al though both sides would claim they are a million miles apart

According to Susie Green of Mermaids, 'cis' means "happy with gender and fancies opposite sex "
You'd think she would be ostracised by the trans lobby for saying stuff like that.

Meh, she has a point. If we can apparently change our sex, then why not our sexual preferences. We already trans away the gay so why not find a way to stop pedophiles being attracted to children.

Your comment has a flippant tone, but I think anyone who found a way to stop paedophiles being attracted to children would deserve a Nobel prize in medicine.

Who was that gay jazz player, he was brought up to believe he was gay, it came as a shock to him as an adult when he realised that he wasn't..

George Melly

Wasn’t he just bisexual?

I'd be interested to know if Widdecombe is actually woke, having had an epiphany after Willoughby insisted that Willoughby's 'woman-ness' penetrated

Well she’s anti gay rights, anti abortion, a Tory so not really woke

I think you’re all giving Ann way too much credit here. She’s a homophobic catholic woman and was basically coming out as in favour of conversion therapy.

Nah. We're not. We're well aware that she's not a leftie liberal all of a sudden, cheers.

The point is that she made the connection between being able to 'change your sex' and being able to 'change your sexual orientation' and that if one is acceptable then how is the other not?

I doubt that any of the regulars here would consider it possible or desirable to change either your sex or your sexual orientation.

Nah. We're not. We're well aware that she's not a leftie liberal all of a sudden, cheers*

Patronising much

The point is that she made the connection between being able to 'change your sex' and being able to 'change your sexual orientation' and that if one is acceptable then how is the other not

I’m not pro trans but surely this is obvious. Most people who go through conversion therapy are pressured by the church to change themselves. There is no religious pressure to change gender. To equate the two is pretty low IQ.

Nah. We're not. We're well aware that she's not a leftie liberal all of a sudden, cheers.

Some people very obviously got the wrong end of the stick and thought this was an example of gay conversion therapy going hand-in-hand with people changing sex.

Patronising lots. Just to be really clear.

The bare, simple point is here that it's not possible or good to change your sexual orientation. Neither is it possible to change your sex.

The motivation behind either of these misguided desires to change what you cant change doesn't have to be identical for this point to stand, but actually there is a reasonable amount of overlap among homophobic religious parents, for example, who would rather have a trans 'daughter' than a gay son.

There is no religious pressure to change gender

bobbins

have you looked at the Iranian women's football team recently? gay men there are pressured to change gender so they become heterosexual in the eyes of people that think lipstick and long hair make a woman

The NHS website actually thinks it's possible to do both:

On life after surgery:

After surgery, most trans women and men are happy with their new sex and feel comfortable with their gender identity.

On sexual orientation:

Once transition has been completed, it's possible for a trans man or woman to experience a change of sexual orientation. For example, a trans woman who was attracted to women before surgery may be attracted to men after surgery.

Tbh the entire resource is a fucking mess. I'm trying to challenge it with them one page at a time but even that is like writing a thesis because it's so messed up.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

Well yes, the NHS website agrees with Widdecombe too. Kerazay.

Here's a paper on the phenomenon.

You can tell its legit because it refers to sexual orientation as being a "Western sexual norm [...] established during the modern era" and that although once upon a time "Sexual identity was seen as something ingrained in the psychological and biological makeup of an individual" in actual fact it "emerged only in the course of colonialism."

If I remember correctly, sexual dimorphosm was also supposedly made up by white colonists. All the best science takes as its starting point the idea that everything we think we know is just a western colonial social construct.

The funny thing is that in the study, same sex attracted trans people were most likely to retain their sexual orientation (therefore becoming straight) whilst opposite sex attracted trans people were most likely to change their sexual orientation (therefore remaining straight). Come gather all ye homophobes and trans the gay away.

• according to trans logic

I am not claiming Ann Widdecombe is anything other than a hard line right wing religious fundamentalism, but she has written about the "madness" of thinking people can change sex www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/ann-widdecombe/970254/transgender-equal-rights-feminism-ann-widecombe-visa-crash-kim-woodburn

I think she was attempting to be sarcastic in the interview but didn't put it over very well. ie If you woke media types are claiming it possible for people to change sex why isn't it possible that at sometime in the future if someone wasn't happy having same sex attraction they too could (sexually) transition with the help of science.

I think it is really interesting that all the commentators are only quoting the bit about changing sexuality and not in any way referencing her remarks about the biological impossibility of changing sex. And think this is part of a pattern in the media to just silence the idea that anyone is questioning the trans dogma.

Western sexual norm [...] established during the modern era" and that although once upon a time

From a historical perspective this is largely true though, the idea of sexual orientation, that there is a type of person who is homosexual or heterosexual in the way we think of it, is a fairly modern western idea.

Goosefoot
I heard the noxious Milo Yiannopolis (sp?) reflect on similar questions wrt his own experiences, both as a young teen abused by a much older male priest* and coming into the gay male scene with a culture of older men taking younger men under their wing, so to speak.

He was saying that it is impossible to tease out all the 'nurture' influences like those - and hating his mother - from the 'nature' ones (ie, born oriented that way). He said he basically believed that the orientation was there first, with the experiences shaping some aspects, if that makes sense.

• incidentally, he was also saying that in the last few years he's really matured in his thinking on the abuse. He used to say it wasn't damaging, now he sees clearly just how young 13/14/15 year olds are and the abusive power imbalance.