Stonewall?

[thisusernameun]

Hello. I have been lurking on these pages but in no way can I say I fully understand the complexity of all that is being discussed and trying to educate myself. However I now have the opportunity at work (a university) to influence an action plan around equality and diversity. Someone has suggested signing up to stonewall. I am aware that there are some issues around this and I was wondering whether there is a similar but better organisation I can steer them to. Some information about the issues about stonewall would also be welcome, just so I am more informed.

Maybe start here

www.transgendertrend.com/back-to-school-with-stonewall/

However I now have the opportunity at work (a university) to influence an action plan around equality and diversity. Someone has suggested signing up to stonewall. I am aware that there are some issues around this and I was wondering whether there is a similar but better organisation I can steer them to.

I would just ask the important questions of Stonewall rather than immediately proposing an alternative.

There are lots of threads with resources.

Key would be Stonewall's treatment of lesbians.

In October a very respectful petition was started.
Its points, the comments on it & Ruth Hunt's response should be more than enough for any university to pause.

see threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384407-Times-letter-petition-STONEWALL-CRITICISED-undermining-women-s-sex-based-rights-and-protections-Jonny-Best-et-al

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384455-Ruth-Hunt-Stonewall-do-not-and-will-not-acknowledge-that-there-is-a-conflict-between-trans-rights-and-sex-based-women-s-rights

also:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3488261-The-Financial-Juggernaut-that-is-Stonewall

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3593038-Excellent-letter-to-Ruth-Hunt-from-Bev-Jackson-found-of-Gay-Liberation-Front

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3514190-Ruth-Hunt-is-leaving-Stonewall

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3355712-Aimee-Challenor-Stonewall

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3490398-Womens-Liberation-Front-petition-to-Stonewall-and-others

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384799-Companies-need-to-rethink-their-association-with-Stonewall

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3323180-Spectator-article-the-limits-of-stonewall-s-tolerance

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3311959-Stonewall-The-Truth-about-Trans

(there are many more)

As soon as I saw this I wanted to put up the ro symbol. I'm glad you are here, I knew you'd have the links.

For me, I can tell my organisation has been "stonewalled". Language has been changed.

For me that language is incorrect. We are now asked "do we identify with the gender we were assigned at birth"
No mention of sex. Sex is a protected characteristic and yet it is ignored. Stonewall is all about ignoring inconvient old sex. I need to get my stuff together to challenge this. Im sick of it.

Weary def look at Transgender Trend.

For me, I can tell my organisation has been "stonewalled". Language has been changed.
For me that language is incorrect. We are now asked "do we identify with the gender we were assigned at birth"
No mention of sex. Sex is a protected characteristic and yet it is ignored.

Stonewall have explicitly campaigned to remove single sex exemptions from the Equality Act.

Last year the government said this would not happen.

Stonewall ae determined to achieve this so seems liekly they are 'lobbying ' in other ways eg through establishing policies in public & private sector to achieve this.

see James Kirkup (July 2018) for evidence:

"Some facts about the events that preceded the Government statement here that the coming consultation on the Gender Recognition Act will be narrowly drawn and not affect the Equality Act’s single sex exemptions.

I offer these facts because some are claiming “there was never any question of removing/amending EA exceptions.” Those claims are either mistaken or dishonest.
August 2015
Stonewall submission to the Women & Equalities Select Committee says MPs should amend the EA to
“remove exemptions, such as access to single-sex spaces” (continues)

concludes: June 2018
Govt says:

“We are clear that we have no intention of amending the Equality Act 2010, the legislation that allows for single sex spaces.”

In sum: MPs and others told govt to amend/remove Equality Act single-sex exemptions. Govt considered doing so. Then govt ruled it out. / ends"

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1004635839480164352.html

Wearywithteens

All schools should access Transgender Trend's resources.

Available free here:
www.transgendertrend.com/

Stonewall is a money generating, networking and lobby group.
They should not be influencing schools & certainly not be charging schools to be lobbied by them.

The Transgender Trend materials are great. They don't focus on how to change children's language / behaviour / identity or insist that schools throw out their knowledge / experience of children's behaviour, mental health issues, search for identity and safeguarding in favour of a narrow adult view of identity and confidentiality.

They are rooted in good educational practice - supportive, respect for differences, kindness, not pigeon holing children on the basis of stereotypes and safeguarding children from adults and groups seeking to use youngsters to validate their own decisions. They suggest that schools must work with parents, pointing out the hazards of schools transing children in secrecy.

And they comply with the law and the Equality Act - unlike the lobby groups currently using schools and children to further their own ideology.

The Equality Act is a great place to start - insisting that sex as a protected characteristic is always included.
And ensuring that single sex facilities are always retained - there's now lots of information about the legality of this. Fair Play for Women are an excellent resource:

fairplayforwomen.com/changing_rooms/#

Asking Stonewall, who represent the LGBT community, what the definition of a lesbian is, might be a good start.

Asking them to clarify, when they say a woman who is attracted to a woman, would be necessary, of course.

And nailing them down over whether or not it is transphobic to exclude transwomen from a lesbian's dating pool.

Most people don't realise what the answers would be to this. Most people have an image in their minds of Stonewall promoting and protecting homosexuality, with the famous Born This Way strapline.

It might come as something of a shock that Stonewall no longer base sexual orientation on sex.

Wearywithteens

The Safeguarding document on TGT's website is very important.
Helen Saxby has written a detailed briefing based on law & established policies.
Teachers, governors and parents can provide these resources alongside those created by Stonewall, Allsorts, Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence, GIRES etc and ask that they are considered seriously.

Senior leadership & Governors when given the opportunity to review should be able to identify the issues and they are with the resources and guidance provided by trans lobby groups.

Oh holy... That is great thanks a lot. Have skimmed through it and will read in further details once home.

And all the other resources etc received by others (I started writing this earlier)... Really appreciate the time you took to respond.

Here's a recent Mermaids training session for teaching staff and governors.
Mermaids & Stonewall are partner lobby groups.

Anyone working in schools or universities should have a listen & a serious think:
soundcloud.com/christianconcern/lgbt-group-mermaids-training-teachers-and-governors-at-a-church-of-england-primary-school/s-BRUBN

threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3454658-recording-of-mermaids-training

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3595042-Mermaids-response-to-piece-in-Mail-tomorrow

Good luck trying to get a university to be gender critical, or even mildly wary of Stonewall! It's the ultimate tick box and they all sign up to it.

They don't have to become 'gender critical' they simply need to apply the realities of law, established Safeguarding frameworks, GCSE science & critical thinking when listening to Mermaids teacher training!

This may be of interest, thisusernameun
medium.com/@JonnnyBest/whats-gone-wrong-with-stonewall-1be30cffba9f

Op, I do think the recent guidance on free speech for universities which specifically mentions an example of a feminist being no platformed might be also useful here.

I don't know for certain but are there other LGB groups other than stonewall who are more moderate?

Or are there well recognised groups for lesbians who produce guidance?

NeurotrashWarrior
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/publication-download/freedom-expression-guide-higher-education-providers-and-students-unions-england