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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Feminism making me look at everything in a different way

55 replies

raisinsraisins · 27/05/2019 16:43

I blame MN!

Went into London today and got the tube home. There was a woman in my carriage, and then 3 men got on the next stop and sat near her. The men were talking/shouting loudly, playing music on their mobiles, sitting sprawled over lots of seats. Although they weren’t doing anything wrong, I found them a bit threatening. As soon as they got off the tube, the woman got out a sandwich to eat, she obviously didn’t feel comfortable to eat in front of the men.

Another example was yesterday when my DS showed me his school Leavers Video. I asked him why there were hardly any of the girls in the video, but mainly the boys, who were in charge of it all. He said that most of the girls didn’t want to be in the video as they were worried they didn’t look good without their makeup!

Just 2 examples that maybe would have just passed me by, but since getting more involved in feminism and WPUK I have really started noticing everything in a different way. Although that can only be a good thing, I do feel that it sometimes affects my relationship with my DH and DS’s due to my different viewpoints on things...

OP posts:
EmpressLesbianInChair · 27/05/2019 16:48
Wine It’s like that.

I felt at first as if the world had changed, then it hit me that things have always been like this & it’s my perspective that’s different.

Ninkaninus · 27/05/2019 16:51

It changes everything. And once you see it, you can never unsee it. Sad

I haven’t got the energy to rage, cry, set out argument, entreat, engage anymore. I am resigned. It was ever thus, and it will continue to be so.

JellySlice · 27/05/2019 17:08

Yes.

I've always defaulted to he/him/his etc for un-gendered statements. That's what English does. Using one/one's etc can come across quite pretentious, and it can be a bit of a clumsy sentence, too. So using the masculine form is generally considered neutral.

But I have become increasingly uncomfortable with this. I realised that defaulting to masculine is not truly neutral. It effectively erases the female experience.

I actively try to use feminine forms where once I would have used masculine ones. Sometimes people give me odd looks, or ask questions to clarify, as they think I am talking about a specific individual rather than in general.

Mumminmum · 27/05/2019 17:21

One of the books in uni had a lot of made up examples of correct and incorrect management behaviour. Whenever it was a manager who did good it was a male, whenever it was someone who made mistakes it was a female. My teacher, who was male, did the male mistake of bragging about knowing the author. I asked him if he had noticed the misogyni of the book. He had not. A female teacher, who was also present exclaimed that this was the reason why she couldn't take the book seriously, despite it being a part of our curriculum.

LizzieSiddal · 27/05/2019 17:32

It’s everywhere and it’s so depressing.

SarahTancredi · 27/05/2019 17:36

I know exactly what you mean. Part of me wishes I could go back to being oblivious and having learnt to keep the part of me that felt angry or that something wasn't fair to one side and carry on.

But now I see it everywhere in everything and it can never be unseen.

Ninkaninus · 27/05/2019 17:44

I came to feminism early on in my adulthood so most of my life has been lived with the searing knowledge of just how horrendously unjust things are and how deep and entrenched the poison is.

It’s a heavy price to pay for my intellectual awakening. Ignorance really is bliss. You can see why many people prefer to remain blinkered to the reality of things.

It’s utterly shit.

RosaWaiting · 27/05/2019 17:53

"As soon as they got off the tube, the woman got out a sandwich to eat, she obviously didn’t feel comfortable to eat in front of the men."

yes, there was a stage of men photographing women eating on public transport and uploading the pictures.

tbh I would say what's happened is you've had a reality check, sorry. I've lived in London all my life and I always find this kind of behaviour worrying on the Tube, and women do have to protect themselves.

I learned early that I should check any football times because getting stuck in a carriage with them means so much "chatting up", sometimes the easiest thing to do is go along with it. Smile so you don't get abused.

GassyAss · 27/05/2019 18:02

A few years ago I went to see Caitlin Moran speak. She decribed this as wearing feminist glasses. As soon as you put them on, the world as you see it changes. Everything is the same but different. And once you see it, you can't unsee it.

Original poster
raisinsraisins · 27/05/2019 18:11

And when I saw how much space the men were taking up it made me then think about a few days ago when a friend gave me a lift in her car. Her young DS at the back was messing around a bit and sticking his legs and feet right across the seat and up on her headrest while she was driving. I thought this was a bit naughty but my friend just laughed. However, I’ll bet if it was her DD doing this she would have told her off and told her to sit nicely. So that’s how this entitlement starts.

Yes, I think you’re all right, in some ways it’s better to be oblivious and live in ignorance!

OP posts:
LanaKanesLabia · 27/05/2019 18:32

You know that film "They Live"?
Where the guy puts on those glasses and can suddenly see the ads for what they really are?
Thats exactly how feminism has been for me!

All of a sudden it's like the world has become a dystopian nightmare and I'm one of the few who see it.

It makes everything have a completely different tone.

I've had to back off friendships....so many friends are actually fucking sexist pigs (this is in the lefty punk world)

RosaWaiting · 27/05/2019 18:35

that's interesting OP, I would have thought if you wouldn't tell one child off, then you wouldn't tell any child off IYSWIM.

I do tend to mix with a small group and they are mostly feminists. One had comments from some of her family because her son played with toy cookers and so on.

I also posted on here once when we took her DC to a bookshop and the girl came back saying "I want this book but it's for boys" with a downcast face.

funny thing about not having kids - you never think you'll end up explaining this stuff to kids, but you do Grin

also reported on here when I heard a woman telling her DD not to play on a big car in a store "because that's for boys". I butted in. I'm not sorry!

LanaKanesLabia · 27/05/2019 18:36

And I'm so grateful to FWR for helping me see it.

Films give me the fucking rage.....cute girls and older men, women being helpless bystanders.

Men on public transport taking up room or leering at teens, being talked over when the woman knows more....

LanaKanesLabia · 27/05/2019 18:39

Oh god the policing of toys.

My DS was once told he couldn't have a pram cos it's "for girls"....my answer was "why..do men not have babies too"?? With this faceHmm

Ninkaninus · 27/05/2019 18:40

Like Reese Witherspoon said, the amount of films where women say ‘what do we do??’ - how many times IRL do women not know exactly what to do in any given crisis. Seriously.

Ninkaninus · 27/05/2019 18:42

And what’s saddest is pretty much everything on this thread so far is on the very mild end of the spectrum.

The lack of respect afforded to women as human beings daily, in every level of society, is just frightening.

StroppyWoman · 27/05/2019 18:44

Lana
That's exactly it, the They Live analogy.

Once you see it, you realise it's everywhere, it's supported and endorsed by people you love and admire, it's eroding the quality of life of women and girls. And then you get disparaged for being an angry feminist.

If we're not furious, we're not paying attention.

ClownTent · 27/05/2019 18:47

DS is 3 and I became more interested in feminism once he was born. It coincided with an increased interest in politics too, as he was born abouta month before the Brexit referendum and I don’t think the rage has left me since then.

Unfortunately for me, this ‘enlightment’ coupled with incidents that occurred while I was growing involving men, has just led me to the point where I openly admit that I dislike men. As unhelpful as that is to feminism, I don’t like them, don’t trust them and am incredibly scared that, despite my best efforts, DS will grow up to be complicit in rape culture etc because that seems to be inevitable.

OhHolyJesus · 27/05/2019 18:54

He won't Clown my DS is 3 also and I'm bricking it for when he goes to school and is exposed to older kids and god knows what but my wise friend said that Me and DH are his biggest influencers and I felt very reassured by this. Even when he is a gruff teenager I'm determined to have a good relationship with him. I will talk to him about consent and respect. He's already my little ecowarrior and it won't be long before I add feminist to that too!

You're his hero, keep him close and he will be fine xx

AngelinaNeurosurgeon · 27/05/2019 18:58

One of my bugbears is when in my job I receive correspondence from someone named only as, for example, J Smith or A Brown. I'd put money on it that these are men who expect me to reply to them as Mr Smith or Brown because that is the default, so I take pleasure as addressing them as Ms [Surname].

Justhadathought · 27/05/2019 19:08

I think that once you have centred your own experiences as a woman; owned your own voice; your own feelings; your own perspective as a woman on things - you do change. But you also become more empowered as a person.

It's not all anger and resentment. It is positive. You can own your own space; inhabit fully your own body; not automatically make of yourself an object for the male gaze ( which women do unconsciously and habitually Speak with confidence your own words.

Feminism is about becoming a fuller, more rounded, more authentic human being.

Mrscaindingle · 27/05/2019 19:18

I also blame MN I'm seeing it everywhere!!
I've been playing Patriarchy chicken now that I've realised that I automatically move out of the way for men. So far I've not budged, one or two have not been happy but I've not banged into anyone yet.

Original poster
raisinsraisins · 27/05/2019 19:19

RosaWaiting - most of my friends wouldn’t describe themselves as feminists and seem to be happy living quite gendered roles. The few feminist friends I have are more the liberal new type of feminist.

Justhadathought - yes, I do think that I’ve become more confident in myself, as I would be quite happy to speak up for myself in all situations now. Although it might not always be in my favour. My male boss made a joke about females hormones the other day, and I replied that man have hormones that affect them all the time, not just once a month. I really need to act more feminine and just simper when men make these “jokes” but I just can’t....

OP posts:
EvaHarknessRose · 27/05/2019 19:23

I am reading the excellent ‘Invisible Women’ by Caroline Criado Perez.

It is not helping the affliction you describe.

RosaWaiting · 27/05/2019 19:26

OP "I really need to act more feminine and just simper when men make these “jokes” but I just can’t...."

no, you don't need to simper. Why would you need to do that?

a stony silence or raised eyebrow will ensure you don't need to listen to the idiocy again.

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