Feminism making me look at everything in a different way

[raisinsraisins]

I blame MN!

Went into London today and got the tube home. There was a woman in my carriage, and then 3 men got on the next stop and sat near her. The men were talking/shouting loudly, playing music on their mobiles, sitting sprawled over lots of seats. Although they weren’t doing anything wrong, I found them a bit threatening. As soon as they got off the tube, the woman got out a sandwich to eat, she obviously didn’t feel comfortable to eat in front of the men.

Another example was yesterday when my DS showed me his school Leavers Video. I asked him why there were hardly any of the girls in the video, but mainly the boys, who were in charge of it all. He said that most of the girls didn’t want to be in the video as they were worried they didn’t look good without their makeup!

Just 2 examples that maybe would have just passed me by, but since getting more involved in feminism and WPUK I have really started noticing everything in a different way. Although that can only be a good thing, I do feel that it sometimes affects my relationship with my DH and DS’s due to my different viewpoints on things...

I also blame MN I'm seeing it everywhere!!
I've been playing Patriarchy chicken now that I've realised that I automatically move out of the way for men. So far I've not budged, one or two have not been happy but I've not banged into anyone yet

It is an interesting exercise to hold & meet the male gaze too. Not subject yourself to it.

On the issue of moving out of a male path: most men are just human, of course, and aim to accommodate ( certainly when alone, they do); but you do come across some men who you just know & sense are violent bullies in their personal life, and they don't like it one bit if you keep to your path, and don't budge for them. It takes nerve, and a good sense of judgment, so as not to endanger yourself unnecessarily, but interesting and empowering nonetheless.

Being 4’11 is surprisingly useful for playing patriarchy chicken.

I have to look up at pretty much everyone anyway so I don’t really give a fuck how much bigger they are.

RosaWaiting - most of my friends wouldn’t describe themselves as feminists and seem to be happy living quite gendered roles

On the surface, I, too, live with some fairly gendered roles in my life - but they are of my own choosing, and even if I get fed up now & then about all of the food shopping, food preparation & cooking I do, I realise that I actually like being busy, and serving food, at the same time.

I think in a marriage and family situation we make all sorts of 'arrangements' and compromises - just out of practicality. They do need to be fairly reciprocal too, though.

However, what matters more than any specific role I adopt in my everyday life, is who I am as a person, and how confident I feel to name my own experience and be myself.

Or the ones who claim to believe in equality when it comes to who splits the cost on a date but suddenly forget all about it later on when it comes to splitting childcare. You see them claim to believe in equality on the threads about dating and who should pay but the same usernames are never seen on this board. Or not on this board anywhere near as often. Funny that!

Or the ones who claim to believe in equality when it comes to who splits the cost on a date but suddenly forget all about it later on when it comes to splitting childcare. You see them claim to believe in equality on the threads about dating and who should pay but the same usernames are never seen on this board. Or not on this board anywhere near as often. Funny that!

I'm a little confused? Are you talking about women or men here?

Both.

but men when it comes to housework and childcare

Did you notice that all pre natal, post natal parenting books describe a baby as a he? Nearly all.

I unfortunately work with the middle age white men only who's wives did/do everything for them (kids, house, school duties) so they don't understand equality at all.

Worst of all, many of the NCT friends, do everything (house, kids) and work. Many don't get their husbands to pick or drop off as they "have important jobs". Completely weird if you ask me. Many speak of equality but at home they do everything?!?

I guess in the surface I also look like I live a gendered life. I’m married, only work part time, and I like clothes and wearing make up. However, those who know me well know my views. And I guess I now understand the underlying systems that have led to me leading the life I have now.

Did you notice that all pre natal, post natal parenting books describe a baby as a he? Nearly all.

I had some books that used 'she'. One book commented on this in the introduction, and deliberately alternated chapters between he and she. That really took some getting used to.

Always relevant

but men when it comes to housework and childcare

If you both have to ( & want to) work full time then all of the other domestic stuff can be a real mine field; and most of us still fall into gendered roles.

If you stay at home as a Mum and are financially dependent, then the situation is different, of course. And some of that will depend on the nature and personality of your partner., and how generous & flexible, or controlling & dominating they are.

Personally, I have always expected to be boss when it comes to the house; and also to the children, if I'm honest. I think many mothers anticipate child care and domestic issues in a way that many men don't - and so expecting your partner to 'do as you would' can be futile and counter-productive.

Me too. I notice it everywhere now.

Even in places where I really, really don't expect to see it.

I'm a member of a group that does voluntary work in the community. The nature of our work is such that we have to be 'active listeners', think carefully about the words we use, be aware of body language and examine our own prejudices and biases. Basically self awareness, sensitivity and empathy with others are essential requirements. Every member has gone through considerable training.

A while ago we had a 'leaving do' for our chair, an extremely able and highly qualified professional woman in her mid 60s with a very high level career. Her time as chair was particularly testing and she had to deal with and steer us through some complicated issues.The farewell speech was given by a middle-aged male committee member, probably some 10 years her junior. He opened his remarks by referring to her as a girl. He later found it necessary to describe her as an 'intelligent woman' in a tone that suggested this was remarkable in some way.

I felt such outrage on her behalf. Whilst purporting to thank and congratulate her on her leadership of the group, this supposedly thoughtful and empathetic man was patronising and dismissive.

Would he have called an outgoing chairman a boy or remarked on him as an 'intelligent man'? Of course not.

I feel this way too. While battling with the huge issues that women are confronted with, day to day stuff includes:

Films, books I enjoyed have been ruined.

Men at my work are excused from being late to meetings etc.

Don't start me on the children's clothing aisles, birthday cards and toys!

It's everywhere!!!

But isn't there fun to be had too in putting your feminist foot forward? As a teacher I point out misogyny when I see it and girls are usually pleased to rise to the challenge.( primary).

Last week I had a group for guided reading with a book about space travel. Now do you want to be a Space boy? it asked.... We had a great discussion and decided to write to the publisher.

No, there isn’t any fun in that for me. I used up all my hope and optimism on bringing up my daughters.

I think it’s almost worse to bring girls up to think they can be empowered and we can ‘be the change we need’ and all that stuff, which puts the onus on women to fix a male problem. If any meaningful change is to happen it will need to come from, be driven by, and put into action by men. And as we all know, there’s really not much incentive for men to change things. Even the good, decent men can’t actually do much.

Nothing will really change.

Gosh Nink that's a really sad viewpoint.

On another thread today, someone was talking about how much for the better things were since the 60s, when you couldn't get contraception outside marriage or could be fired if you got married etc. That's within the life experience of many posters in here, so things are getting better.

And I'd rather say that yes women and girls can make a difference than say that change had to come from men!

Well I’m glad that works for you.

As soon as they got off the tube, the woman got out a sandwich to eat, she obviously didn’t feel comfortable to eat in front of the men

Hmmm idk about this one. I wouldn’t eat a sandwich if anyone (man or woman) sat next to me on a train, as I’d find it a bit rank if someone ate a sandwich right next to me. I know that might sound odd but isn’t it kind of inconsiderate? What if the sandwich smells of egg or something? I thought this was just being polite.

Hithere12:

I remember reading reports in the tabloid press, roughly two or three years ago, sorry can't give you any references, but about men on social media, targeting, photographing, and ridiculing women, specifically, for eating food in public.

It just came over as men trying to ridicule women, and control women's behaviour.

The 'patriarchy chicken' is a good one to do, though, if you're up for it! It has certainly increased my own confidence.
You just decide to stop moving out of the way for men.

Hithere12 - the men were acting in a subtlety aggressive way by taking up a lot of space and shouting to each other. I guess the woman was being sensible, trying to be invisible, and didn’t want to take the risk of receiving comments from them. She looked quite happy eating in front of other people further along the carriage once the men had gone. I’ll also bet she would have eaten in front of a group of rowdy women.

I think it’s almost worse to bring girls up to think they can be empowered

Difficult isn’t it? I was brought up to believe women were approaching equality and the gradual realisation that we were actually going backwards has been really shit. That upbringing also led to complacency.

That said, now for the first time in my life, I think I’ve properly accepted who I am and am optimistic for the future.