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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore?

652 replies

theOtherPamAyres · 25/05/2019 23:14

I know that Mumsnet moderators are hot on keeping respectful debate and for that reason does not allow misgendering, certain terms, and the like. It's their site and they make the rules and I respect that. This topic isn't about Mumsnet, it's about the growing confidence of feminists to refuse to use the terms and language of gender.

Karen Ingala Smith, speaking to the Womens Select Committee, showed how it could be done. As a result of the clarity of her language, she was able to cut through the nonsense and make her points forcefully. In contrast, Janet from Womens Aid, with her convoluted language about gender, sounded confused and muddle-headed.

When we are forced to use words like 'transwoman' and 'she' - for fear of prosecution, civil actions, job losses, imprisonment for contempt of court, exclusion, abuse and physical assaults - we have helped to normalise transgenderism. In effect, we are saying that a man can be a woman.

I believe that we can no longer support Trans Rights by default, by caving in and going with the flow. At some stage we have to assert the right to use our own terms - because we can't wait for legal precedents and government reviews. The more refusniks and recusants there are, the more confidence will grow.

What tips and tricks of language did you start using when you could no longer kowtow to the demand for obedience?
How did you write or speak about people/men/women who identify as trans? (Did you see what I did there?)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Datun · 27/05/2019 09:09

When all this ridiculous nonsense has been roundly dealt with by the grown-ups, the number of articles called things like Masters of the Own Goal will be manifold.

As a result of reporting, hundreds of thousands of people have now read Barracker's further, more comprehensive, mind altering, game changing words on the matter. All in a piss easily shared format, which is being beamed to reporters and MPs at light speed.

medium.com/@barrakerr/pronouns-are-rohypnol-dbcd1cb9c2d9

Thank you Barracker.

GirlDownUnder · 27/05/2019 09:11

Wow 1.1k claps now on that article ShockSmile

That counts going up fast!

jamrollyolly · 27/05/2019 09:20

*Datum
*
GrinMasters of their own goal. Love it! It's so not the first example of this kind of backfiring. Maybe we should start a resource thread to cheer ourselves up!

aprilviolets · 27/05/2019 09:32

has anyone contacted Justine over this? She always seems to be a passionate advocate for free speech. (and GC, reading between the lines) I don't think she would've banned Baracker.

ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles · 27/05/2019 09:38

I couldn't resist nominating the thread for Mumsnet Classics last night (knew what the answer would be) and also took the opportunity to ask for someone to come and chat to us about what had happened. The reply as of last night:

Thanks for your report. We have been in touch with Barracker privately, as we always do in these situations, to explain why the post was deleted and we've given a bit of a precis of that on the boards too as there was obviously quite a bit of upset about it.

We are continuing to read the thread and will be passing people's thoughts on the issue upwards.

With regards to the nomination for Classics, as things stand, we don't think this is a thread that would sit well in Classics. There are a lot of deleted posts there for a start. But thanks for the thought. We'll keep everyone posted if there are any developments there.

RussianSpamBot · 27/05/2019 09:40

I'd like to see Barracker's post too.

ScottishDoll · 27/05/2019 09:42

What a wonderful article, I think mn should make it a sticky!

medium.com/@barrakerr/pronouns-are-rohypnol-dbcd1cb9c2d9

TinselAngel · 27/05/2019 09:42

I had a thread on the same subject deleted a while back. I hope this one doesn't go the same way.

AnyFucker · 27/05/2019 09:43

Having a smashing morning watching the fall out from EU elections and googling "Barra Kerr" and " rohypnol"

Whoops, I did it again

ScottishDoll · 27/05/2019 09:44

It's well after 9am now, surely Barraker should be reinstated by now?

RussianSpamBot · 27/05/2019 09:52

A useful tip. Having now seen what Barracker wrote, it's spectacularly obvious what she meant. This is a poor decision.

Absolutepowercorrupts · 27/05/2019 09:56

RussianSpamBot
The reasons pronouns matter isn't because it spares hurty feelings. There's no worth in that compelled 'She' when you know the speaker doesn't mean it. No, the reason pronouns are such a massive deal is because pronouns act like smarties They lower inhibitions, make you feel safer, lessen defences
This has been posted before with different words in the place Barracker put the brand name of a drug. I've no idea if this will be deleted. The others haven't been.

Absolutepowercorrupts · 27/05/2019 09:57

Russian
I didn't see your post before I wrote mine

RussianSpamBot · 27/05/2019 09:58

Appreciate it either way.

endofthelinefinally · 27/05/2019 10:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WrathofGRAconsultationKlop · 27/05/2019 10:18

MNHQ were trying to reassess things quickly as they were happening in real time. I presume.

I am glad this thread hasn't been deleted.
This is because our regular posters comply with MN rules.

To answer the op's original question,

Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore

Hmmmm.

NotBadConsidering · 27/05/2019 10:28

I saw the original post and I’ve read that article, both are spot on.

Sevigny · 27/05/2019 10:40

I’m amplifying this until we get an answer

MNHQ: why is the weekend mod team seemingly operating to different standards to that in the week? Why are users being suspended and/or banned for posts that don't break the guidelines?

LangCleg · 27/05/2019 10:50

**

Waves back at her bestest darling!

ScottishDoll · 27/05/2019 10:53

To be fair to MN I expect the system works on the number of reports a post received together with a "remove just in case" safeguard until the monday morning escalated post catch up.

There used to be next to none moderation in evenings and on weekends and it was not good so let's give them the benefit of the doubt and continue reporting whilst assuming all will be well ...

CodenameVillanelle · 27/05/2019 10:54

@bernard barracker did confirm HQ emailed her but it was an old email address.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 27/05/2019 11:00
R0wantrees · 27/05/2019 11:01

MNHQ: why is the weekend mod team seemingly operating to different standards to that in the week? Why are users being suspended and/or banned for posts that don't break the guidelines?

I've noticed this. Its not a one off.

Sevigny · 27/05/2019 11:15

Some righteous anger for Barracker is just what I needed to fire me up into asking for the thing that got me a lot of doxxing attempts to be reanimated. HQ promised to when I was ready, I hope they stand by that.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 27/05/2019 11:20

We’ll reach the firmament yet.