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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Good night stories for rebel girls

39 replies

SunshineOutdoors · 23/05/2019 21:36

Dd (7) was given this book as a gift. Reading it together she came across one story about a boy who I think became transgender (didn’t look too long at the page or read the whole story). Dd became quite cross because there was a boy in her story that’s meant to be just about girls (her, slightly paraphrased, words). I’m a bit cross too to be honest because I thought the premise of this book was great as a discussion point about women’s history and how hard it has been for them. I appreciate this story has its place and that the person in it has also probably experienced their own challenges, but I’m surprised that it was included in this book and also intrigued by dd’s reaction (which I shared to be honest). Not sure what I hope to gain from this thread but just a bit sad I suppose that what is supposed to be a women themed book felt it needed to include this, and sad that my daughter’s natural reaction to it is probably not going to be seen as acceptable as she grows up. Just highlighted for me the erosion of women only spaces I suppose.

I didn’t really talk it through with dd in much detail(hence not fully reading the story). She just wanted to turn the page and read about someone else, which I was happy to do. I suppose it just jarred with me - thinking in terms of explaining to her how some of these women weren’t allowed to go to school,vote, be who they wanted to be because they are women and I didn’t feel the need for this - an equally valid story of an individual but not someone with the experience of being put down because you’re a woman and all the history and politics that goes with it - to be included in the book.

OP posts:
SirVixofVixHall · 23/05/2019 21:41

My dds have written “and one horrible boy” over his face...actually I think now they have glued his section together.
All those truly incredible women, and then one small boy who has done nothing whatsoever worthy of praise, but instead merely has parents prepared to bully small girls into having no boundaries.
That is all it takes as a male, to get lauded.

MrsJamin · 23/05/2019 21:48

There's a boys' equivalent and there's a bloody transgirl in it 🤦🏻‍♀️ I heard of someone gluing those pages together.

MrsJamin · 23/05/2019 21:49

I mean transboy. Easy to get confused, right?

Bananalanacake · 23/05/2019 21:57

my dd has this book but I haven't come across that page yet. do you know the page number?

GrandmaSharksDentures · 23/05/2019 22:00

There's 3 or 4 transgender boys in the boys equivalent book

Orchidoptic · 23/05/2019 22:02

So early to start messing with children’s minds... do the stories explain that you can’t change sex?

HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 23/05/2019 22:03

We skip past this page as I get cross about it every time I read it. Yes yes, lots of truly incredible women and a small child who literally hasn't done anything for women or girls but really wants to be one. Ahhhh it's making me mad again.

SexPayGap · 23/05/2019 22:04

I was cross about this too. My daughter didn’t bother reading it when she realised it was just another annoying boy.

Mercedes519 · 23/05/2019 22:06

So glad it isn’t just me....

Yes children, if you are a boy and you like pink things you must be a girl. Angry

Reducing a hugely complex issue into reinforcing gender stereotypes

Outofinspiration · 23/05/2019 22:13

Oh this pissed me off no end, and all the talk of how Coy likes pink and glitter. I couldn't believe it was in a book that is supposed to be about breaking down gender stereotypes. I meant to glue the pages together but I forgot and now my kids always want to read that page Hmm I have tried to use it as an opportunity to make my views on it known to them, so I say that boys cannot actually ever become girls, even if they do love pink and glitter. My kids tell me that he was a boy but is now a girl, but I'm persevering with my message in a way that doesn't make any personal judgements about the child in question. I don't want my kids thinking that transgender people are 'bad'.

This though:

My dds have written “and one horrible boy” over his face...

Are you serious?

ShowOfHands · 23/05/2019 22:16

My dd wrote to the editor and complained. She was 10.

AncientLights · 23/05/2019 22:43

I found my granddaughter's copy of this in my bookshelves. Didn't know what to do with it because of the offending, utterly ridiculous inclusion of a boy. So far I've just hidden it and may bring it out when she's a bit older, had a thorough grounding in 2nd wave feminism and we can analyse the boy bit. Hopefully with some humour.

Lumene · 23/05/2019 22:46

I gave a gift copy away.

TheBullshitGoesOn · 23/05/2019 22:58

I haven't bought it because of the inclusion of that story. It has really annoyed me as I would otherwise be keen to get it for the DC.

As an aside, DD(8) got very annoyed by a drag act in a recent BBC dance show. Their name was 'something' Girls.(can't recall exactly what). Her statement was 'i don't care what they wear, but they are not girls'. I'm sure she would have a similar response to the transgirl story in this book.

SirVixofVixHall · 23/05/2019 23:21

Yes, that is what they have written. A boy has forced the girls into letting him use their private space. My then ten year old daughter thought that was horrible, or she wouldn’t have written it.

SirVixofVixHall · 23/05/2019 23:22

Showofhands good on your dd.

ArcheryAnnie · 23/05/2019 23:53

I'd have bought this book a hundred times over as a present for the ton of kids I know, but I won't touch it with a bargepole with this nonsense in it.

And I don't blame the girls who wrote "and one horrible boy" over the page. I feel intensely sorry for the child in question (I was a gender nonconforming child, too, though thank god transing children wasn't a thing then) but since this child isn't going to see those girls' copy, I think it's a really healthy thing that these girls feel that they are allowed to have boundaries, and to express those boundaries without feeling the pressure to be nice and submit.

ArcheryAnnie · 23/05/2019 23:55

I wish I'd had the sense to (metaphorically) write "and one horrible boy" a lot more, and a lot earlier. I hope I'm making up for it now. It's OK for girls and women to have boundaries.

Balsaboat · 24/05/2019 00:08

(Namechanged to avoid outing myself)

DD's school have this book and used it for a class activity recently, with small groups being given one woman each to write about. I didn't know beforehand but I know the school has generally kept away from "gender" matters with their pupils (younger end of primary) and had a pretty sensible approach so far (I did go in to talk to the head a while back, and shared the TT online materials - I think it was before the print version was out).

Anyway DD told me this had happened, but that the children themselves had not been happy about that story as a) "he was a boy" and b) they thought Coy hadn't done anything particularly impressive, unlike the other stories; and apparently the first group to be given that story was eventually allowed to cover a different person (though one group did still cover Coy).

I have wondered whether to talk to the school again about it, but tbh thought the kids themselves had handled it pretty sensibly, and also it didn't seem like school were really pushing the ideology either, it just happened to be in that book, so not sure it's worth making a fuss?

callity · 24/05/2019 09:38

There's a shot of Coy's story from an earlier thread. That's quite a lot on sparkly dresses and shiny pink shoes.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminist_book_club/3016794-Good-Night-Rebel-Girls-transgender-included

Good night stories for rebel girls
Anyonebut · 24/05/2019 09:41

This book already grates me just with its title, it should be "about rebel girls" not "for rebel girls", this sort of thing should be aimed at/read by girls and boys!!

MermaidUnicorn · 24/05/2019 09:49

We don't have that book primarily because it has Margaret Thatcher in it (DH was insistent). We have lots of other, similar books though without any sign of boys in dresses, just fab women. The Kate Pankhurst ones are excellent.

PrincessButtockUp · 24/05/2019 09:49

I wish I could like posts on Mumsnet. Some really sensible things said here including the book is about rebel girls, it's for everyone. Coy might be a rebel boy, for liking pink and glitter, but plenty of girls don't like that stuff. Gender stereotypes help no-one. Let's get rid of the boxes and allow people to take joy in expressing themselves however they wish, without the need to impose male genitalia into female bathrooms, changing rooms, refuges etc. Males can dangle but women have to bind? Not in my name.

CharlieParley · 24/05/2019 09:53

I had the same reaction to that story and so found different books for my nieces that focused entirely on females instead. IIRC I got the 50 women that changed the world type and checked all the stories out beforehand. My nieces would have been beyond annoyed to be presented with a story that glorifies a boy for embracing the very sex stereotypes they rejected.

And I am impressed with the daughter's of PP who correctly assessed this boy forcing his inclusion in female-only spaces as horrible. Well done on not only teaching your girls that they are allowed to have boundaries against males but also to assert them against ALL males, however they identify.

And I don't know about you, but for me a rebel girl has always been a girl who defies the stereotypes imposed on our sex, not a boy who embraces them.

floodypuddle · 24/05/2019 09:54

Argh, children struggle to understand that your gender isn't interchangeable anyway add part of their development. My 4yo dsd recently told me I must be a boy because I like blue.

This story makes it sound like liking pink sparkly dresses = being a girl. How confusing for little girls who don't like pink, do they then start to doubt if they are girls etc?? What's wrong with just liking what you like and accepting that's not affected by sex...