Eton College has a Feminism society

[GabrielleNelson]

... and they had an outing recently to a girls' school to explain gender theory to them. Not a joke, it seems.

www.etoncollege.com/newsarticle/etons-feminism-society-meets-with-students-at-st-marys-ascot

Glosswitch has a good thread building on Twitter about this. Julie Bindel says she is going to use it for the start of her next book.

I think it’s a bit like the Groucho club- any man who says he is a feminist probably isn’t one. A feminist ally is a fine thing to be.

Is it a Feminism society or a Feminist society? A significant difference.

It's a Feminism society.

I see this as problematic because a disproportionate number of Old Etonians, who by definition are all male, and are also mostly white and from wealthy families, have ended up in positions of considerable power and influence, and have done very little to improve social mobility and move towards a fairer society with equal opportunities for all. E.g. David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg.

If some Etonians were genuinely buckling down and considering male privilege I'd be delighted. But from the brief report in the link I put in the OP, it doesn't sound as if that's what they did at this joint meeting (which I also note now happened 16 months ago). Instead, it sounds as if they are mulling over gender ideology, which is anathema to me, as it treats gender stereotypes as if they have some kind of objective validity that trumps biological sex.

Oddly , bio males who ID as female continue to be treated as male for the purposes of primogeniture and inheritance, and bio females who ID as male don't. So a Duke's eldest child who becomes a transwoman will still inherit the dukedom in due course, but a Duke's eldest child who transitions to become a transman will never ever inherit ahead of a younger brother. That tells you all you need to know about how genuine Parliament thought transition was when it passed the Gender Recognition Act 15 years ago.

Men and boys can be feminists as much as women and girls

So it would be valid for men to determine feminist issues and come up with solutions and not include women in the discussion? A feminist organisations could be completed made up of men?

I think it’s a bit like the Groucho club- any man who says he is a feminist probably isn’t one

this. if a man says he's a feminist, AVOID AVOID AVOID

That tells you all you need to know about how genuine Parliament thought transition was when it passed the Gender Recognition Act 15 years ago

see threads by
Vulvamort
@ HairyLeggdHarpy
(extract)
I'm going to tweet out a few of the illuminating comments from the debates that led to the GRA 2004, to save you all ploughing through Hansard.
One of the primary motivations (if not the foremost) for the bill was to avoid legalising same sex marriage. This featured VERY heavily in the discussions.

It was, in the Govt's eyes, FAR preferable to convert a same sex couple into a heterosexual couple via 'sex change' than it was to make same sex marriage legal (continues)

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1049289194370002945.html

(extract)
"This one about how critical it is to define SEX and GENDER in law and never to conflate the two.

And how the Government repeatedly refused to allow that distinction, despite being asked to. (continues)

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1052160108489334785.html

(extract)
Thread#3 of the GRA debates of 2003/04.

This time, SPORT.

Funnily enough, although the govt argued that all females were to be rendered legally indistinguishable from MalesWithFemalePersonalities 'for all purposes', they DID decide that sports was a bridge too far." (continues)

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1052199906105016321.html

finally,
(extract)
"If those who voted the GRA into law had known that 14 years later the EHRC would be lobbying to remove every criteria and safeguard the govt promised would keep the legal lie in check, this law would never have existed.

The GRA only exists BECAUSE of these checks and balances. (continues)

concludes: These quotes I'm sharing are not from the people who raised concerns about this legal lie.
These quotes are the promises and reassurances the GOVERNMENT made to objectors to persuade them the law would not be open to abuse.
These are the foundations upon which the Act is built."
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1053968824356274177.html

I feel for people who get taken down for describing, or not describing, themselves as feminists. I have many times seen people reprimanded for using the term if they were men, or not GC etc. Or reprimanded for not using it because feminism is just about believing in women's equality.

I think people can be forgiven for thinking they are damned if they do, and damned if they don't, and deciding the whole thing is a crock of bs by people who get a thrill out of reprimanding others. And I think it's high on the list of things that turn people off of being supportive of feminists.

Surely we can understand that some people think its a term that only properly applies to women, while others thing it applies to anyone who supports a feminist analysis. And even that there are some that see it fundamentally about believing in sexual equality. And just see the way people mean it in the context without making a huge deal about it? No one has a TM on the term after all.

I no longer describe myself as a feminist in the same way I'm a lesbian who no longer describes myself as LGBT. Both have been appropriated by a political lobby that don't represent me or my interests, twisted out of representing the people they were set up for, and are using the protections and traditional support of the position to destroy the movement from the inside.

Feminism centres women.

I’m going back to my old school feminism of the 80s (when I was a student). Everyone else can just fuck off with their new fangled gender nonsense.

If it doesn’t put women (and I mean women) at the centre. It ain’t feminism. I don’t need to be told how to ‘do woman’ by a wee lad.

EagleRock

"It was the girls that said this, not the boys"

Well then they all need to have a re-think

You need to read the article properly.

So it would be valid for men to determine feminist issues and come up with solutions and not include women in the discussion?

Did i say anything at all even remotely like that?

Ok - I’ll be the person who points out that the members of this Feminism Soc are not ‘Old Etonians’ - they’re teenagers at school. And many, many of them have no connection whatsoever to any of the current government. And come from homes where they have to converse with actual female feminists. Maybe we should wait a decade or two to see how they turn out?

Goosefoot-do you think that white people, able bodied people and straight people have the right to an equal place at the activists table with black, disabled and gay people?

“f it doesn’t put women (and I mean women) at the centre. It ain’t feminism. I don’t need to be told how to ‘do woman’ by a wee lad.“
You and me both, sister.

Goosefoot-do you think that white people, able bodied people and straight people have the right to an equal place at the activists table with black, disabled and gay people?

I think we’ve seen where identity politics has lead us, and the kind of person attracted by the term ‘ally’.

I am just not sure what people are picturing. Kids are going to want to discuss gender stuff and queer theory, it is all around them.

It is shitty that they may not be getting as much exposure to really good thinking as they should, it's a problem in education everywhere. It's likely they are being given the impression that there is only one way to think about many things, and that is also a problem.

But they are young people who need to be allowed to think through problems and popular theories without adults telling them just what they are allowed to talk about or support. You can't demand that young people grow up to think outside the accepted orthodoxy but at the same time try and make sure they only think the right thoughts.

My DS is a member of the Eton Feminist Society. St Mary's Ascot is a kind of 'sister' school to Eton. There is a load of complete and utter bollocks on this thread, presumably spouted by people who have children at neither school.

@BogglesGoggles, it's a good idea to know how to spell the name of the school before your DSs don't sit the entrance exam.

GeorgeTheBleeder Ok - I’ll be the person who points out that the members of this Feminism Soc are not ‘Old Etonians’ - they’re teenagers at school. And many, many of them have no connection whatsoever to any of the current government. And come from homes where they have to converse with actual female feminists. Maybe we should wait a decade or two to see how they turn out?

Speaking as the mother of a highly gender critical Etonian with a pretty good understanding of how it isn't about him, but is interested in feminism: thank you. I'm doing my best to make sure he's part of the solution and I have to say the school isn't doing too bad a job either, in some cases providing useful counterweight to the parents...

Lol, xpost!

Goosefoot-do you think that white people, able bodied people and straight people have the right to an equal place at the activists table with black, disabled and gay people?

Yeah, of course I do. We don't live in silos, and they create bad thinking.

“My DS is a member of the Eton Feminist Society.”

Is that a different one? I thought this thread was about the Eton Feminism Society?

@etonianmother don’t take it personally, we’re kist ceryvtrafitional.

@Etonian2017 Well said. I am a single mother, and my DS has (feminist) sisters. Not all Eton boys are hopeless cases. And I would say the school encourages them not to be.

Jolly good, @BertrandRussell. I'd think, myself, that the beliefs are more important than quibbling about the name of the society. As I'm 300 miles away, it's tricky to know the exact name of everything. However, I can't fault the school regarding its feminism agenda. Or, indeed, on anything at all.

Are they campaigning to allow girls into Eton so they can access all the privileges that particular education brings? Eton being one of the bastions of white, upper class, male power. If not then they're totally pointless.

No they're not, thank goodness. Eton is itself, and is completely brilliant for being this way. My girls are at girls' schools. Eton is not the only bastion of privilege, I promise.