Harry the Owl

[slycooperatemysocks]

Please can Harry be dropped from the Fair Cop campaign. Having an overt racist involved will just damage it. Thank you

To put this another way, many of us who have arrived at a position of opposing the gender identity ideology have done so as a result of looking at what we previously believed and deciding that we'd actually been wrong.

Therefore, we should welcome anyone else arriving who says "you know, those views I had years ago, well, I don't have them now". Let's leave to others the need to have been born with the "right" set of views that are never to be changed.

Needmoresleep

It would seem we have a few things in common, and have experienced things which few, English people have.
I think I said on another thread, that if you made up a questionaire based on politics, religion, topical subjects and gave it to twenty people, you wouldn't get two people answering the same way.
With regard to Harry, I would rather concentrate in what he is doing now, which in my opinion is really important work, and to be honest I reckon everyone has the odd "skeleton in the cupboard" if they go back far enough.

Let's hope your hands are squeaky clean before putting your neck on the line for freedom.

Guidelines need to be addressed and not just snuck in. Harry is trying to highlight and tackle this, the way some of the TRA's are going for Harry is very telling, they're worried.

It’s good to see a bit more acceptance that not everyone comes at this issue from a radfem perspective. Its not just Sargon talking about it - seems to be the topic of the day all over the libertarian blogosphere, although you wouldn’t know it if you only look at radfem sources.

IMO - this is an extremely good thing, as it’s a basic free speech issue and is very relatable to people who may know nothing about the trans debate but don’t like being told what opinions they can and cannot hold.

Over 14,000 now - that's 600 in 3 hours.

Who would I prefer to listen to?

Someone who spoke honestly, was prepared to hear others and to think independently, and would occasionally come back and admit they got it wrong.

Or someone who parrots a given line (TWAW for example) and insults rather than debates if contradicted.

Or more simply. A discussion in a pub over a pint. Harry or Posie would be far more interesting than either Lily or Harrop. Even if we had to agree to disagree.

It’s good to see a bit more acceptance that not everyone comes at this issue from a radfem perspective. Its not just Sargon talking about it - seems to be the topic of the day all over the libertarian blogosphere, although you wouldn’t know it if you only look at radfem sources.

IMO - this is an extremely good thing, as it’s a basic free speech issue and is very relatable to people who may know nothing about the trans debate but don’t like being told what opinions they can and cannot hold.

Those who centre the needs of women, children & vulnerable adults should be very cautious. The dynamics of Power & abuse of power are complex.

Just as TRAs successfully coopted feminism, gay, disability, civil rights etc so too are there some males (who may identify as libertarian/freespeechers) who will seek to co-opt the efforts of radical/gender critical feminists standing up for women's rights and Safeguarding.

I am posting under a new name/anon because there is a history of threats.

Harry posts under his own name, which allows you to dig into his background and then harass him about not being good enough for his own campaign.

Do you not even understand what this is about? The reason you can't post under your own name because of threats is what the campaign is about in the first place.

Everyone should have the right to an opinion in their own name, even if other people disagree with it.

The vast majority of MN members post anonymously.

Those who use their real name have usually done so because they have or want to amplify a public profile.

I do think the OP has done Harry a favour. This thread is close to the top of this very famous board and there are some very good discussions about the nuances of free speech.

Maybe, but that’s not what I’m seeing. Probably because they’re not coming at it from a ‘centering the needs of...’ perspective (far too touchy feely) but one of truth and individual liberty. They certainly aren’t interested in co-opting feminism or positing themselves as saviours of vulnerable women, at least nowhere that I’ve seen. If there are men doing this, absolutely we need to call them out/point and laugh.

Just as TRAs successfully coopted feminism, gay, disability, civil rights etc so too are there some males (who may identify as libertarian/freespeechers) who will seek to co-opt the efforts of radical/gender critical feminists standing up for women's rights and Safeguarding.

See also those advocating for conservative religious ideologies which will similarly be to the detriment of women. children & vulnerable adults.

The bigger picture is important.

They certainly aren’t interested in co-opting feminism or positing themselves as saviours of vulnerable women, at least nowhere that I’ve seen. If there are men doing this, absolutely we need to call them out/point and laugh.

They are coopting the efforts & focus to promote a freespeech agenda whereby for example Carl Benjamin / Sargon of Akkad seeks to justify his sexism, misogyny and abuse of women

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3580450-I-wouldnt-even-rape-you-UKIP-MP-Carl-benjamin-unapologetic

To me the bigger picture comes down to the saying, "I don't agree with what you say but respect your right to say it."

There are very definitely loads of people supporting free speech, rather than Feminism. People who even disagree with feminism (and therefore with a lot of what Harry says, but defend his right to say it.)

I saw several people donate to Maya's thing with similar comments. Not agreeing with her views but wanting her to have the right to express them.

I guess we’re going to disagree on this one, R0. Some of us are single issue, for others it’s indivisible from a wider picture.

FWIW I think Sargon is a twat, and I will always defend his right to be one.

My position is solely that women should be cautious.

The wider picture is not always seen or fully considered.

My focus is Safeguarding children & vunerable adults and women's rights.

FWIW I think Sargon is a twat, and I will always defend his right to be one.

He's much more than a twat & IMO its very dangerous to understate what he's doing.

To me the bigger picture comes down to the saying, "I don't agree with what you say but respect your right to say it."

Vebal abuse is a form of abuse.

Speech and language are tools used to oppress groups of people.

Back when I did my English degree & also took Women's studies there was a clear understanding and recognition of the dynamic.

The same is also true of any other groups who are/have been oppressed.

The important thing is to recognise the power dynamics. Who has the power, how is it being used & abused.

(A key indicator is that it is unlikely to be white, heterosexual males)

Carl Benjamin/ Sargon of Akkad interviewed yesterday by Victoria Derbyshire:

twitter.com/VictoriaLIVE/status/1128963029704425472

twitter.com/VictoriaLIVE/status/1129100704893820929

"Let's hope your hands are squeaky clean before putting your neck on the line for freedom."

I've heard that some folks can change their identity, erase their past and then make it a crime to refer to their previous identity.
Mind you, that does sound a bit far fetched

Its also true that some people have deeply held sexist/misogynistic/racist oppressive intent.

Also true that some people (regadless of sex or gender identity) are primarily driven by their own self-interest & personal need for power/validation/control etc

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

R0

That video was chilling. He maintains it was comedy and that comedy is under attack. And then says that women should be able to deal with jokes about rape, as that would be empowering for them.

I mean apart from the quite sinister lack of empathy, he seems to be saying that if we can desensitise women to rape, by making jokes about it, it's better for them?

Unless I've got that wrong??

Datun Having experienced abusive control patterns, it was difficult to watch the interview.

The patterns are very familiar.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness