Georgia (USA) makes abortion punishable by life imprisonment.

[Oldstyle]

New legislation HB 481 only allows abortion up to 6 weeks. It has massive consequences for women who get abortions from doctors or miscarry. A woman who seeks out an illegal abortion from a health care provider would be a party to murder, subject to life in prison. And a woman who miscarries because of her own conduct—say, using drugs or alcohol while pregnant—would be liable for second-degree murder, punishable by 10 to 30 years’ imprisonment. Prosecutors may interrogate women who miscarry to determine whether they can be held responsible; if they find evidence of culpability, they may charge, detain, and try these women for the death of their fetuses.

Even women who seek lawful abortions out of state may not escape punishment. If a Georgia resident plans to travel elsewhere to obtain an abortion, she may be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, punishable by 10 years’ imprisonment. An individual who helps a woman plan her trip to get an out-of-state abortion, or transports her to the clinic, may also be charged with conspiracy to end of the life of a “person” with “full legal recognition” under Georgia law.

This is a shocking assault on women's health, autonomy and reproductive rights. The intention to 'interrogate' women who miscarry to check for 'blame' is inhuman. Apparently 28 other states are intending to follow Georgia's lead.

Not sure where she got that from. The relevant law I think is the Abortion Act 1967, and it is legal up to 23 weeks and 6 days if done by a qualified doctor, according to Marie Stopes and bpas.

Wait til we get to the stage where a trade deal with the US will only be signed with countries who have banned abortion.

Can't happen...?

Give it 10 years.

The US already do this:
www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jul/21/trump-global-death-warrant-women-family-planning-population-reproductive-rights-mexico-city-policy

Where the UK are politically between the US and Europe matters HUGELY for this reason.

We could be held to ransom over this and forced in the future to ban abortion.

Hopefully America will split up before that happens. Sorry Americans.

Actually, technically, abortion is illegal in the UK. There is an exception only if it is signed off by two doctors. You need permission.

Sounds like tomahto tomayto. Legal if signed by drs, illegal unless signed by doctors. We don't have legal right to die either.

Hopefully America will split up before that happens. Sorry Americans.

I'm not so hopeful. A poll by survation tonight, put 72% of the Brexit Party as male. The Brexit Party are driving politics atm - both the Cons and Lab are desparate to pander their voters. The dynamic is troubling. Its also noted that the Koch brothers who have pushed the anti abortion agenda in the US have close ties with many of the party's candidates who gave come from both the left and right.

There is a real dark side to this and a danger that the UK will at some point get sucked into what is happening in the US over abortion.

There is some real scare- mongering on here re the UK (excluding NI) The UK abortion act was passed in 1967- 6 years before the UK joined the Common Market.

Despite the 2 doctor rule mainland UK's time limit on abortion is considerably longer than most, possibly even all EU countries.

I voted Remain and would do so again, but leaving the EU isn't going to be the end of civilisation as we know it.

Leaving the EU means certain laws CAN be repealed should someone choose to do so. At the moment they legally can't. What we are seeing is an international reverse on liberal reforms that happened in the post war period in the western world - particularly with reference to women's rights. The foundations that those reforms were built upon and then subsequently reinformed - by things like, but not exclusively - our membership of the EU. Every one of those protections that fails, leaves us a little more exposed to further pressures which can erode rights. Its one of those where the danger is a direction of momentum that eventually becomes impossible to push back against.

And the most fundamental principles to protecting rights is not taking them for granted or assuming it couldn't possibly happen - because when you look back at various things that HAVE happened in the last 5 years, that you'd have said COULDN'T happen, you suddenly realise how fragile the post war settlement and liberal reforms that freed women actually are.

There is no scaremongering in this - just a reflection on historical past and political present. This isn't unprecedented.

Hopefully America will split up before that happens. Sorry Americans.

Hopefully? I can't see how this would be a good thing, in particular for women living in Alabama, Georgia etc.

Hopefully? I can't see how this would be a good thing, in particular for women living in Alabama, Georgia etc.

Though women are 'unimportant' because they live in 'backwards' states. They have a choice to leave you see.

It's only a big deal if it happens to women in the trendy 'civilised' states or to us in the UK (we happily ignore NI because they are 'backwards religious nutters' and those women have a choice to live there etc etc)

Sadly there's a strain of thought amongst some who, even if they are pro-choice still in practice, think there's two classes of women - those deserving of rights and those who don't because they almost choose to live in the wrong place or are just easy to right off because they are economically or socially expendable to others, and 'I'm alright Jack'.

It's very depressing.

If you don't defend the rights of others, you expose your own to threat.

Is there a difference between America and the UK in that for many Americans, abortion makes voting a single issue choice? They would vote for anyone as long as they are anti-abortion.

This is the reason they voted for Trump - to put Kavanaugh on the bench to challenge Roe v. Wade. They really don't care about anything else.

Outside NI (And I don't even know how much it exists there) there is no sizeable organised anti-abortion contingent in the UK.

Data for progress @ dataprogress
There is no state in the country where support for banning abortion reaches even 25 percent. (Data for Progress analysis of the 2016 Cooperative Congressional Election Studies)

It's a minority issue even in the US though...

Trump became president despite not winning a majority. I don't think single issue anti-abortion voters are in a majority, but there are enough of them to matter in the the American election system.

After all, only about half of Americans even voted in the last presidential election.

Hopefully? I can't see how this would be a good thing, in particular for women living in Alabama, Georgia etc.
Though women are 'unimportant' because they live in 'backwards' states. They have a choice to leave you see.

To try and clarify, women are not unimportant to me. There are intersections of interests here. No, the women left in the backward states would not be in a good place and I don't want to see that happen. But, neither do I want those cultures to spread. These misogynist and violent attitudes are being spread around piggy back on the power of the rest of American culture. Acknowledging the internal culture conflicts are getting beyond any form of compatibility and splitting the US would reduce its power and ability to spread all of its culture, thus I believe reducing the spread of misogynistic and violent attitudes. It is a question of greatest good for greatest number I think. I could easily be wrong.

merrymouse The '97 election was pretty much a single issue one - fox-hunting.

I am so angry about this I've been awake since 2am and physically shaking. I don't know what I can do to help, it's not as though I can give some poor Alabaman teenager $200 greyhound fare to get to another state - even if she did she'd likely have no health insurance anyway.

But, neither do I want those cultures to spread.

Sorry but they probably are. Go onto an average British campus, and evangelical Christians are all over the shop dominating a surprising number of elected positions in societies etc. Ditto with the spread of wahabi Islam.

Why...

My guess is it is in part an equal and opposite reaction. Certainty in a confusing world. Confusing particularly for those the illiberal left ignore as they focus on their trans and other agendas.

But, neither do I want those cultures to spread.

We live in a global world. An authoritarian political tidal wave is consuming it. You CAN NOT isolate the problem because social media effectively does not allow it. It is a social contagion and when others see successes in one area, they take on those tactics because they know they can be effectively.

As i've said, we might well be exposed financially if we fail to sort a good trade deal with the US and this would leave us at the mercy of forces which will seek to expose that weakness. We also know that the agenda of the Christian Right in the US isn't to merely ban abortion in the US. And they are the Ones In Charge Now.

Numberous individuals from the Brexit Party both far right leaning and far left leaning have received significant funding from the Koch Brothers who support the anti-abortion agenda.

The tentacles of this are already deeply embedded into our current political crisis. The purpose is precisely to disrupt our current liberal society and over turn it. All roads lead to women being the losers in that. Why IS it that the Survation poll this week had 72% of Brexit Party supporters being male? What's attracting men in particular??? Its really not simply leaving the EU - Hell the party doesn't even have a manifesto (for a reason). Its part of a world vision for the future which Trump and the Republican Party are very much trying to drive - one which seeks ownership and control of women and isn't actually about a moral opinion over the 'injustice of killing babies' at all.

I think it goes back a long way, this is not a new thing although it is suddenly hitting the radar of people in power as even middle and upper classes come into contact with 'undesirables' who've been abandoned at birth. It is the loss of confidence in professional circles, so that they have to tolerate intolerance. The loss of confidence in local and individual intelligence and flexibility to adapt on local small scales, for fear of abusing power and creating inequality. Which as we all know, is a an outcome, but it has become an even bigger outcome when people are hamstrung in this way. All of society's checks and balances -which consist largely of having lots of little powers rather than one large one - against the power of money and wealth have been removed, as we have come to celebrate only money and wealth. So it has free reign. It is what western countries have been visiting on poorer ones, come home to roost.

The '97 election was pretty much a single issue one - fox-hunting.

But most people in the U.K. are against fox hunting.

This would be like Farage becoming PM because he agreed to support fox hunting. The local hunt sometimes goes down the bottom of my road but (despite recent controversy over shooting birds) it’s not an issue that seems to affect local politics.

It is hard to believe that in one state at least, an 11yo who is pregnant will not be able to terminate the pregnancy. Here are some Republicans’ views on rape...

Are those people all still in jobs?!

The '97 election was pretty much a single issue one - fox-hunting

It most certainly was not.

It's either the European sphere of influence, with law and order and democracy, as flawed as it is

There is an MN thing of looking at the best things in the best EU countries and deciding that is all down to the EU. You might try looking at law on rape, trafficking, prostitution and attitudes in say Spain, Germany or Poland before being so complacent about the EU.

2B
That can't be real