Jurgen there’s some big questions there - I’ll do my best to answer them
Forgive my male ignorance here, but where does all this 'women's sexuality is different' narrative come from?
It is different though, and not just because of the anatomical differences, and especially the hormonal differences associated with having a menstrual cycle. We know that young men experiment with their sexuality and how to achieve sexual pleasure from a young age - I remember being a teenager, there were plenty of conversations about the boys masturbating (often excessively), but the girls never talked about this. Some were doing it I’m sure, others like me never did. I didn’t masturbate until five years after I lost my virginity. I didn’t think I liked orgasms. Sounds ridiculous now. I didn’t think women were supposed to enjoy penetrative sex, it felt like something you do for your partner so that they can orgasm, and yet I did it anyway despite it being unsatisfying and often painful.
We also know about the orgasm gap - a very small percentage of men have never had an orgasm from penetrative sex, fewer still have never had one at all. For women, the majority have never had an orgasm from penetration and a sizeable percentage have never had one at all. Now is this because it truly is more difficult for women to have an orgasm, or is it because men are told from the outset that it’s going to be really diffcult and even impossible to give a woman an orgasm and therefore don’t try very hard / have no idea what to try? Do women overall feel as able as men overall to ask for what they want in bed? Do women even know what will work for them without the years of solo exploration that many men have experienced?
My OH was very into learning about pleasing women from a young age (he was reading Joy Of Sex etc at the age where his mates were busy watching porn) so he is more knowledgeable than most (which is why my perspective started to change) but by his own admission he didn’t know most of what I showed him yesterday. If men knew these things, I believe the orgasm gap would close considerably (although of course it’s about pleasure and not just orgasm)
Isn't it a throwback to certain institutions, e.g. the church, wanting to control and condemn any female sexual urges?
Yep. Except it’s not a throwback, it’s still happening now. Perhaps “hangover” is a better word but if you think women’s sexual urges aren’t controlled or condemned now, I’m not sure you’re really paying attention or listening to what women say. Right now in the U.K., rape victims are having their personal communications and sexual histories used against them and used as an excuse not to prosecute. Rape prosecution (not conviction, just prosecution) rates have dropped to 1.7%. Why? Because the defence can drag up every instance of a woman’s sexual history, google searches, porn usage, interest in BDSM etc as proof that they’re sluts who couldn’t possibly be raped. Even women who have admitted to being attracted to a man who goes on to rape them would have a hard time getting a conviction because of this. How are we not condemning women’s sexuality exactly? If a man were raped, would the fact that he’s looked at porn on his phone every other day for years (or however much) negate his case? I don’t think so (see also: MN posts where women say “all men watch porn”, “better porn than cheating”, accuse women of being controlling if they object to porn, etc).
What is the actualised for websites like this, apart from playing into insecurities and making money?
I’m not here to defend them, I’m not associated with the company, if people don’t buy their product it makes no difference to me.
But the content has nothing to do with playing into insecurities and I’m surprised you’d think it does if you’d read not just my posts, but the PP who’s also used it and her account of the difference it has made to her. Why does something focussing on women’s sexuality have to play into insecurities? It’s hard to explain unless you’ve seen it because it’s so different from anything else I’ve seen on the subject (I’ve never seen a video of a woman masturbating before, especially videos that are not designed to be arousing in any way - watching them makes you realise just quite how far removed porn is from reality). Nothing about what I’ve seen from it has made me feel insecure - quite the opposite, it’s been fascinating and liberating (or it was, until the concerns raised here and now I’m pretty fucked off). Unfortunately there’s no way to preview any of it (which I think is missing a trick).
This is a link to an article about the study they published after completing the first round- the money they made from selling it funded the second round, and so on.
www.vice.com/en_us/article/neepb8/the-science-of-female-pleasure-still-needs-more-attention
Women like sex as much as men do
Do we? I don’t think so, I think it’s a very right-on thing to say, but I don’t think it’s true.
Do women (when I say this I mean as a group, not individually) have the capacity to enjoy sex as much as men? Yes, absolutely. We have all the equipment necessary to enjoy sex as much as men. That doesn’t mean we do, for reasons that aren’t just physical, but mental and emotional. I’m sure there are lots of women who enjoy sex to the max and good for them - I’ve just never met any of them! Even the “sex positive” (🤢) bloggers I’ve read bits of focus so much on how their arousal affects their male partners.
Do women currently enjoy sex as much as men? No, I don’t think we do overall as a group and the reasons are myriad (porn, not having done as much exploration as this is condemned or taboo, conditioning that makes it less acceptable for women to be sexually assertive, or that affects our confidence in our bodies, the unequal focus on male pleasure over female - there is a lot more). There’s also of course the fact that a large percentage of women have experienced sexual abuse / assault / rape and the ways this plays into their perception and enjoyment of sex.
Have I actually liked sex as much as men throughout my adulthood? Fuck no. Until recently, the best case scenario was adequate sex. Best case. I won’t even go into the worst cases, suffice it to say it’s been abusive and traumatic and has affected me massively, and not just sexually.
If the partner (male or female) and the circumstances are right, they will be into it with at least as much enthusiasm as any man.
Right, but as I’ve explained, those right circumstances are far more difficult to achieve for women. With a partner who is equally concerned about their pleasure (legitimately, not just lip service - pun not intended), make them feel safe and uncomfortable and has as much knowledge about pleasing her as she has about pleasing him, and a woman who’s been completely unaffected by the gendered social issues around sexuality... sure. I’ve never met any, but I’m sure they exist.
Now the organs might be slightly women can be just as ignorant of male pleasure as the other way round - because, d another perspective
Of course individual women can be ignorant of how to give pleasure to a man (or have no interest in giving it or learning what their partner likes specifically) but overall this is not the case on a widespread basis (again I point you to the orgasm gap - I doubt you know many straight men who’ve never had a orgasm as a result of something a female partner has done to / for them). I’ve (unfortunately) encountered men who are so porn addicted they can’t orgasm unless they’re masturbating and this is becoming increasingly common. As a woman, I have found this extremely difficult to cope with because the expectation is always that if a man is aroused by you, they will have an orgasm, end of story. It absolutely felt like my failure, not his problem.
(Of course there are also factors that cause insecurity for men, before anyone points that out, but I’m specifically talking about women here)
Now some people here have raised concerns about the associations of some involved in this study / associated business. That’s 100% valid and concerning to me. But the idea that women don’t need this information because men and women are equal sexually is frankly bollocks. We are a long way from that and my initial hope was that this research would be the start of closing that gap. I’m still hopeful that’s the case if others who are less problematic will pick it up and run with it.
Hope that makes sense! Sorry, this is a very long response but I wanted to respond properly!