Rape victims must hand over phone or police won't pursue crime

[RedToothBrush]

Both Independent and Times carrying story on their front page.

This is going to backfire spectacularly.

Explains why her inbox has an email from Victoria secret confirming her order.

Was due to arrive three days after she was raped but proves she was up for it...

The woman who lost her life just some weeks ago, having obviously lied to the Sussex police that she was being stalked. She reported six incidents of stalking, and was ignored, because she must have been lying I can only assume, and was killed.

The woman who was stalked, had her ddog killed and strung up in her garden, etc, etc., considered a nuisance.

Some people tell the truth, some people lie.

🤔 It’s not about gender. Men lie, women lie...

It’s just a fact of life.

If everybody just told the truth all the time the police would have a much easier job.

Suggesting that all women should be 100% believed, with no investigation or question...is quite literally insane.

Police can access all 'deleted' material held by third party service providers via a warrant approved by a magistrate, to the best of my knowledge.

On the offender’s SMS messages. yes. But not for all messaging apps, where they need warrants for the US that may take months to come back. In the meantime, they could get the info from the victim WITH HER CONSENT.

Honestly, it’s like people would rather see fewer prosecutions altogether.

Sorry, but you can't 'degender' rape, that's preposterous

Suggesting that all women should be 100% believed, with no investigation or question...is quite literally insane.

Sounds but like Acceptance Without Exception, doesn’t it? 🤔

Gronky

Thanks for that additional info. So, it seems the consent form may be used by police to gain access to WhatsApp and other similar services.

That is interesting. Sounds like police using abused women wherever possible to bypass encrypted communication systems.

Here's the reality of this disproportionate, putting a victim on trial policy.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rape-victims-told-to-hand-over-phones-i-take-a-lot-of-selfies-i-m-worried-i-ll-come-across-like-i-asked-for-it-j88k9r8vk?shareToken=31d63a0aebde1a64b20c5748de0c80e8

A young woman living in fear for month after month after being courageous and reporting a sexual assault. And evidently being victimised by the police who still have her phone 9 months later - cos "it's policy" . I thought we'd moved away from seeing the victim as 'guilty' but evidently not. She'd have been better reporting what happened as a bloody hate crime! Then the police positively leap into action!

This article from 2017 goes through the features that rape allegations that turn out to be false have in common.

Basically, false allegations are onle rarely made by the alleged victim themselves, and the are rarely accusing a named individual. Furthermore, they hardly ever get as far as prosecition, let alone trial.

“Furthermore, in the most detailed study ever conducted of sexual assault reports to police, undertaken for the British Home Office in the early 2000s, out of 216 complaints that were classified as false, only 126 had even gotten to the stage where the accuser lodged a formal complaint. Only 39 complainants named a suspect. Only six cases led to an arrest, and only two led to charges being brought before they were ultimately deemed false. (Here, as elsewhere, it has to be assumed that some unknown percentage of the cases classified as false actually involved real rapes; what they don’t involve is countless innocent men’s lives being ruined.)”

<a class="break-all" href="https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100408125722/www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors293.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100408125722/www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors293.pdf

Overall, in the CPS’ view, false allegations of rape are “serious but rare”. They estimate that there is one prosecution for a false rape claim out of every 161 rape cases prosecuted. That means — according to the best available data — false allegations make up 0.62 per cent of all rape cases.

Channel 4 found different 'facts'

I think the last time I actually managed to find an official statistic that it was about the 3% mark...ill keep looking for it

Sorry, wrong link. This should be right.

qz.com/980766/the-truth-about-false-rape-accusations/

Suggesting that all women should be 100% believed, with no investigation or question...is quite literally insane.

Don't remember reading that on here..when was the post made?

Suggesting that all women should be 100% believed, with no investigation or question...is quite literally insane.

So, how do police deal with a woman who is no longer alive? Is it not the suspect(s) who is (are) interrogated and evidence collected on behalf of the female victim in such a case?

What makes the difference if a woman is still alive? Should suspects not be very thoroughly investigated and evidence be collected in the same way?

Sounds like police using abused women wherever possible to bypass encrypted communication systems.

I must say, that seems like a very unfair assessment. Being proactive and taking the maximum steps to ensure that a fair verdict is secured with the maximum amount of admissible evidence is hardly something to criticise.

If the victim isn’t alive then the police need to investigate whether the crime is murder, manslaughter, an accident, or suicide. They will use wet and digital forensics to determine this.

Consent is rather less of an issue then.

Shall we talk about whether anyone ever checks to see if a burglary isn’t actually an insurance fraud? Because that happens too and there are checks for that using digital info, too.

The entire effing point today is why are police focusing their evidence on the phone and social media records of victims rather than suspects?

Institutional sexism and misogyny within UK police services is why!

Police upholding a male directed judicial system designed by men to protect men and deter women is why!

I’ve explained to you Jackie, but you would rather see fewer convictions and more collapses cases.

Idly wonders whether burglary victims are forced to hand over their phones and computers before the police / CPS will prosecute a burglar??

Beyond when people are prosecuted for false allegations, there’s been some research looking at police case files, to try and work out how common false allegations are more generally. Here, there isn’t actually a single definition of what constitutes a false allegation.

Research by the Ministry of Justice in 2012 estimated that around 3% of 1,149 rape cases they analysed were perceived to be malicious allegations. These are not proven cases of false or malicious allegations. This echoes a study for the Home Office from 2005 which found that about 3% of cases they studied might be considered ‘probable’ or ‘possible’ false allegations.

Both studies emphasise the limitations of their data

While false rape allegations do include people complaining maliciously, this isn’t always the case. Research has suggested that allegations can turn out to be false if the person who reported it to the police misremembered what happened, didn’t know what happened and wanted to find out, or misunderstood the law. The CPS, for example, mentions cases where people report to the police because they thought they might have been raped, but can’t recall because they had been affected by drugs or alcohol.

And remember, in UK, police can only exist and do what they do via public consent.

If 50+% of public [ie: females] do not consent to how police serve them, police officers have no validity for females and justice has no validity for females.

Cases dont collapse cos someone sent a few text messages ffs.

If prosecutions dont happen when the whole rape was witnessed by multiple people, when it was recorded in a phone, hell when it happens infront of people in a school playground. Then there's nothing a WhatsApp chat will prove.

This God awful accusation they victim is somehow preventing her case going forward cos she wont hand over her phone is disgusting.

Dont put this on the victims. When they whole system is designed to protect men.

I’ve explained to you Jackie, but you would rather see fewer convictions and more collapses cases.

[Psst! It's Jacky not Jackie!]

How does forensically interrogating the phone records and social media of suspects lead to fewer convictions an more collapsed cases?

Please explain.

Great, so you DO want no prosecutions at all.

Here’s a thought. Maybe try changing the jury’s minds, so if they hear that a victim was friendly to her attacker and agrees to meet him that DOESN’T mean she can’t change her mind. Then instead of insisting that the police not investigate the whole evidence base, all defendants will just roll over and not contest and juries will not dream of returning a not guilty verdict.

Or you can just accept that if cases keep collapsing, there will be fewer charges brought. It’s a case of being careful what you wish for.

It's 2019

We have a female PM and Police Commissioner

And this actually came into practice?

I'm so disgusted I've no words this evening- I feel women in this country have been systematically undermined , stripped of any rights, identity or protection already and now this. I want to scream from the rooftops and rattle the cage of every single MP until this is turned over.

Time to say NO and for folks to understand what that means.

Wtf this is disgusting.
I was enjoying a healthy sex life with multiple partners when I was raped.
If the police had my phone they wouldn't of believed me (ironically I didn't go to the police because I thought they wouldn't believe me)
Rape is a crime of power yet the police are taking power from the survivor just like the rapist did.
I'm ducking fuming