Rape victims must hand over phone or police won't pursue crime

[RedToothBrush]

Both Independent and Times carrying story on their front page.

This is going to backfire spectacularly.

Ref the Knickers case, which was f*cking appalling...

Are we talking about the case in The Republic of Ireland last year?

I think it's important to recognise that that happened, abroad - in another country, subject to different laws.

Seeing comments like: "the evidence of the knickers was probably introduced by the CPS"

It certainly had nothing to do with the CPS.... because its a different country.

#justsaying

Are we talking about the case in The Republic of Ireland last year?

Wasn't the case heard at Belfast Crown Court ? I dare say that the CPS equivalent in NI has a different name, but didn't want to over-complicate matters. Sorry for the confusion.

Mummaofmytribe

Fucking awful. Simply so it can be said "oh look, she sent him all these friendly messages so what happened was obviously consensual. Throw the case out"
It makes my blood boil”

It’s not that simple though, there are various scenarios where such evidence is extremely relevant. Liam Whatever (can’t remember his surname ..) was cleared because of his accuser’s subsequent text messages to friends, where she had apparently painted a very different picture of the event in question. As I understand it she only later reported as rape after he showed no further interest in her.

Personally, I would have no objection to my phone being trawled. I’m boring and it would probably just put the investigating officer to sleep. I appreciate lots of people will feel very differently for very legitimate reasons. I would expect the accused’s phone to be taken too though.

I suspect many investigations are still failing victims of sexual crimes even now because a tiny minority of people make false accusations. Such behaviour helps no-one, least of all victims of assault and rape, and people found guilty of it should face the full force of the law and be named too, along with convicted rapists.

The attitude on here from so called feminists is troubling. Thousands of rapists are charged every year, hundreds sent to jail. Victims receive justice every year, everyday. This should be highlighted and those victims who receive justice, should be heard.

The comparison to Burglary is bogus. Burglary isn't investigated, you will never see a Police officer, you will get a crime number over the telephone or by letter and that will generally be it. The insurance companies delve deeper. It's not the way we should investigate something as serious as rape.

There is a great documentary on the Serious Sexual Offences Unit in Greater Manchester Police on the Iplayer. I suggest people who would encourage others not to report their rape, watch it, and see the hardwork done by the Police in pursuit of justice.

Just one example from this week of a rapist being jailed and justice being served.

www.crawleynews24.co.uk/three-bridges-rapist-jailed/

Northern Ireland is part of the uk

In case anyone is not aware of that :/

Langrish rate of false reporting for sex offences is similar to other crimes.

Some I bet it is more eg people lying about what was stolen when car broken into. For the insurance.

This is not raised for other crimes, ever, really.

It's an excuse.

Until all women in the world are reliable and honest, no women can be trusted.

This is not said of men even though when it comes to crime, they are far more likely to offend than women, esp violent crime, and most sex offences are committed by men, by some margin.

The focus is always on what women are doing wrong.

Like I say, victim blaming is embedded.

What now the vast majority of rapes were not reported, even before all this.

There is a reason for that. Women are not stupid.

The attitude on here from so called feminists is troubling. Thousands of rapists are charged every year, hundreds sent to jail. Victims receive justice every year, everyday. This should be highlighted and those victims who receive justice, should be heard.

Don’t come on to a feminist board and refer to women here as ‘so-called feminists’, how fucking rude and uncalled for. What unfeminist-y things have we done?

Have you been raped and had to report a sexual assault? Ever had a bad experience? Unless you have, you don’t have a clue why women on here won’t report rape.

Considering how low the conviction rate is, thats a crock.

So because the conviction rate is low we should advise all women not to report it. 2000 + charges last year 900 convictions. Should those women been advised not to bother?

It's less about telling women not to bother, and more about pointing out why women are reluctant.

The conviction rate is something ridiculous like 6%. Because rape myths are ingrained.

Far better to address WHY people think knickers are relevant, then criticise women for knowing they're relevant.

I can understand reluctance. However, I just don't like or understand the underlying attitude on here that there is no point in reporting a rape, it's basically legal and they would advise friends family not to bother etc.

I think it's dangerous. Of course there are issues with the system but letting more rapists go free isn't the answer.

There is never a guarantee of conviction and if I'm honest the whole criminal justice process isn't easy. It's invasive, it's long it's out of the comfort zone of most people. However, hard work is done everyday on behalf of victims and they do get justice.

However, hard work is done everyday on behalf of victims and they do get justice.

Except 94% don't.

And that's what needs to be addressed. The non reporting is a direct result of the lack of convictions.

It's extraordinary to me that rape myths persist. They are so easy to disprove.

Yes, that's the optimistic viewpoint. And obviously the women here want justice for rape victims, which is one of the reasons why there is work to improve a system which fails and damages women time and again.

I will, of course, support any woman who chooses to report and go through that system. But I can certainly understand why there are women like Jessica Eaton who advise women to seek alternative measures to find healing because why should rape victims have to go through an extremely flawed system that may well damage them on a personal level for the purpose of seeking justice if a)the justice may never come and b) they will actually suffer even more in the process.

If my 11yo DD got some man on the net who persuaded her to send a pic with her top off, would I report to police.

No, as I don't want her to be told she might be prosecuted and not just blamed for what happened but criminalised, with no comment on the man. And the view of society as demonstrated on MN and so probably softer than general public, is that this is good as it would teach her a lesson.

I have looked up that case since, no follow up. I have no idea if the girl was prosecuted, nor if they bothered looking about the man.

So no I don't think I'd report that.

And that's perfectly understandable. I'd assume.

None of the women I know that have been raped reported it.

Rape victims triage themselves against rape myths / is there any really good evidence /and now, is there anything in my phone (steamy stories etc). And most of them don't report. Because they're not stupid, they know how all this runs.

Years ago there was a woman who was gang raped. Man she was seeing turned up at her place with a whole bunch of mates.

They got off as she had shared fantasies of rape with the man. Not gang rape. And just fantasies.

So any woman who has viewed or read or discussed anything like that with anyone, is going to struggle to get anywhere.

This is all just true. We know how the world works. The stats back this up.

Of course it is good for women and girls to report, but it is up to them, no one should imply they have to. Especially in this climate.

Until victims stop being treat like criminals on the stand, cross examined way harsher than the rapists are, knickers held up, past sex life used as proof of consent, a drop of alcohol being touched meaning she consented, obvious physical injuries being written off as BDSM, TAPE RECORDINGS BEING DEEMED NOT GOOD ENOUGH, rape myth after rape myth being brought up, and so on, I will continue to believe that its rarely the best thing for a woman to report rape, and as such would advise family members not 'against it' as such but..let them know the likely outcome, and the likely behaviour they will be on the receiving end of along with the ridiculously low conviction rate because so many believe that thousands upon thousands of women simply regret sex so put themselves through the ordeal of 'crying rape' or just want revenge and thousands of men are languishing in jail because of these plentiful horrid women or whatever reason idiots use to make out false accusations are epidemic. Which in turn would probably generally convince people not to bother. But being honest with people is not a bad thing. And people knowing what to expect, helps them a lot I think, as I am sure it can be quite a shock to the system if you do not realise quite how horrifically rape cases are dealt with in this country.

menuPlant

Take your valid points. On occasion though, I think there is a genuine case for evidence gathering from relevant data but no, I don’t immediately know how you do that without risking irrelevant intrusion, I’m not a techie. There must be a way 🤷‍♀️

This point addressed to the PP who said this was a feminist board. Didn’t realise it was? Thought it was about rape. Some men are victims of rape too. Not nearly as many, I know, but they count.

Langrish this board is the explicitly Feminist section of MN. It's called Feminist Chat, or FWR, which is the older name short for Feminism and Women's Rights.

Men rape men too, it's true. Men have a rape problem.

It's clearly down to the individual what they report to the police.

I don't like the idea of others giving specific advise or encouragement to victims not to report to the Police.

E.g Many girls in Rotherham were let down by the Police. However, I still think if an 11 or 12 year old is raped by a 50 year old man. The best advice is to report it. Despite past failures.

FloralBunting

Thank you! All becomes clear now. Should have gone to Specsavers 😁

They were discussing this on Question Time tonight. A lot of mansplaining going on as well as the refusal to see the issue for poorer women on UC

Heard about this and was particularly chilled by one poor woman being told NOT to seek counselling as the records would be used-What the actual Fk????

I get more and more angry at stuff -everyday our rights are being more and more eroded.