Rape victims must hand over phone or police won't pursue crime

[RedToothBrush]

Both Independent and Times carrying story on their front page.

This is going to backfire spectacularly.

I think what makes this is so difficult is that it's not unreasonable to think that location services or pictures or whatever might help a case. BUT>.... we all know that's not how it will work. ever. And so all those men who are ranting on about how the accused as the right to a defence etc completely and spectacularly miss the point while simultaneously basically finding a way to make it the woman's problem. Again.

Makes me mad.

No, its rapists and their supporters, and colleagues in crime

I understand that this can be viewed as another way of saying 'we don't believe you' but crimes must be investigated sadly and are often done so with a blunt instrument.

Maybe the issue is what you call that "blunt instrument"?

Blunt instruments can harm people, as you know.

So, we need a justice system that avoids compounding any harm done to women by men.

As I said above, abuse of females is so ingrained in men that they have no means by which to have any awareness of this.

I understand that this can be viewed as another way of saying 'we don't believe you' but crimes must be investigated sadly and are often done so with a blunt instrument.

You know what work to sell this to women? If we could see some actual times where phone evidence has been used to HELP their case. Instead of endless stories about women who hand over their phone only to either be victim blamed or have the evidence disbelieved....

What were all saying, and keeps being batted back with this is what happens type apologist rhetoric, is...

It's not working, it doesn't work for women, its inherently biased against raoe victims.

We know what it is and it needs to change.

Rape cases need to take an entirely different course in law.

It's really sickening when you look at the processes that protect men, that where theres a potential 'bias' i.e. a female cafcass officer is involved with determining male abuse, steps are put in place to ensure no bias, he's heard first, etc.

This only happened when men starting getting called on their abuses and having DC removed from being their 'property'

Now all the mras have got their way and continually women and DC die at their hands, as a result

It's not working, it doesn't work for women, its inherently biased against rape victims.

This ^^

Systems designed by men for always have such inherent bias ... and the men have no means of having any such awareness that this is the case!

Rape cases need to take an entirely different course in law

We're all ears....what you got in mind ?

Drat! "Systems designed by men for men ..."

The fact that certain bias is checked for, for a start.
Giving women far more support to charge their rapists, for another.
Excluding any other misleading blaming data about the victim for another.

The whole process is currently flawed.

Basically acknowledgement of all the issues raised on here

I know I'm going to get piled on for this.
But I have to remind everybody that some women do lie about rape, and not all men accused of rape are guilty.

OK, that's it. Now I'm out of here until everybody has calmed down.

Goodness - can you imagine?

The victim once looked at porn so is permantly sexually available and incapable of being raped.

The victim signed off her texts with an x so was obviously gagging for it and therefore incapablw of being raped.

The victim had signed up to Tinder so...

The victim had 15 male friends in her address book so...

The victim sent a pissed off text to her mum which involved a swear word so...

I suspect if you know anything about the statistics for those two statements Grumpy, then you have reason to anticipate a pile on.

The fact that certain bias is checked for, for a start.

If i understand you correctly, the major bias is that the jury need to be sure beyond all reasonable doubt for a finding of guilt. Is that one area you'd like checked ?

GrumpyGran8

What % of such incidents of women lying about rape do you think there might be?

What might be the motivation of any such women to lie, given we women know what the system is when it comes to reporting rape or any other sexual offence?

What % of men accused of rape do you think might be not guilty?

@GrumpyGran8
Goodness indeed! Drop a bomb then run off till all you silly 'hysterical' lot have just calmed down
Patronising shite.

Indeed Smotheroffive .. I somehow suspect GrumpyGran is a GrumpyGrandad!

If i understand you correctly, the major bias is that the jury need to be sure beyond all reasonable doubt for a finding of guilt. Is that one area you'd like checked ?

What needs to be "checked" is the learned behaviour of men to abuse females to such an extent that they have no means to be aware that this is what they do.

It is men who design the justice system so that it is biased in favour of men with the possible exception of where men may harm other men.

ow I'm out of here until everybody has calmed down

Rude

Is there any need for that?

LeslieYep, thank you for taking the time to write your reassuring explanation. I think the papers may well know exactly what they're doing but found the story too juicy to not present in a balanced fashion.

I daresay his "knickers" would never be displayed in court and passed around jury members.

I've had trouble locating the statistics but it might be informative to look at the conviction rate for male and female rape victims in order to draw a more robust conclusion.

It is men who design the justice system so that it is biased in favour of men with the possible exception of where men may harm other men.

Aren't women less likely to receive custodial sentences for the same crime than men? I realise this may fall into the bigotry of low expectations territory.

Instead of endless stories about women who hand over their phone only to either be victim blamed or have the evidence disbelieved....

Yes. In my case of sexual assault (not rape thankfully), in contrast to the earlier story about location information on phones being used to secure a conviction, I had an eye witness confirming I and my assailant were in the same place at the same time. It wasn't enough for the police to even want to investigate.
PoliceMEN never want to investigate crimes by MEN. The "law" is made by men for men. I think women everywhere need to instigate a sex strike, and we need a strong pushback against all this 'sex positivity' shite. It's just for men's benefits, not ours.

It sounds like people want to see rape treated in a way where you don't actually include the basic principles of the law system though. Things like the defendant's right to defend himself, or be assumed innocent.
While it's nice to imagine that by some magic we could have a criminal system that doesn't cause any pain to people, I can't really picture what that would look like, for rape or any other crime. These procedures and principles exist because we know what things look like when they aren't there - and that isn't pretty either.

GrumpyGran8

More simply, how many women have suffered rape and seen no justice, how many men walk away with rape and even murder scot free, absolutely scot free - are even imbued with a kind of dark aura of success and celebrity as a result - compared to how many women lie about it?
Why do you think so many young teenage girls want to mutilate themselves and pass as men?

Goosefoot, I want a system where male violence is recognised as common place, where men are not assumed to be nice, and women are not assumed to be lying tarts who are all asking for it from the age of 8 or 9. That's all.

@grumpygran

At college a Scandinavian exchange student claimed a VERY good friend of mine had raped her. We were shocked as he was not the type - a very studious, gentle and reserved person. She said she didn’t really know him at all and he’d just jumped her after a night out.

He admitted they had slept together but said they’d been talking/ spending time together secretly for months as she didn’t want her friends (the other exchange students) to know.

Anyway police siezed his laptop/phone and he was telling the truth, months of constant conversations.

Soon after she was in tears apologising for lying. Her justification was - her friends found out that she’d had sex with him. But she had a long term bf back home (genes the secrecy) who they all knew, her friends had turned on her for cheating- so she’d ‘had’ to say my friend raped her!

He was 18 and spent the night in a police cell. He was arrested in front of his then 12 year old sister at his family home! And for the entire second year of college was nicknamed X...the rapist.

...she was sent home!

🤔 Some women do lie. They just do, and it ruins lives JUST as much!