Rape victims must hand over phone or police won't pursue crime

[RedToothBrush]

Both Independent and Times carrying story on their front page.

This is going to backfire spectacularly.

It doesn’t help that rags like the Daily Mail have without fail a story on their homepage about a woman caught lying about rape every day when these make up less than 1% of cases

Same on MN Hithere12

You can't open your mouth about rape here without the anecdoters plopping their DS falsely accused, girls/women lie, etc.

All very helpful in the massive trend of overwhelming abuses against women and girls, not!

Elizabeth O'Connell asked the jurors to take into account the underwear the teenager was wearing

How does Elizabeth O'Connell still have a job after such sexism in court and pro rape statements.

sawdustformypony
i.e. relevant information that is not used by the CPS, but which may undermine the CPS's case or support the defense case, is disclosed.
Because there have been problems with disclosure in the past it's pretty safe to say the police will over disclose rather than under disclose.
This is why there needs to be a root and branch review of the prosecution of rape. We know there are problems with the rough sex defence for example. It isn't beyond the bounds of possibility that a conversation about 50 shades with a friend could be manipulated by the defence into a predilection for rough sex.
I really think HH knows enough about this subject and unintended consequences not to mislead anyone.

Looked at the complexity thing.

"vThong
The most intense focus of the court’s attention was on the alleged victim’s underwear – a thong – and the pattern of blood stains on it, and how those marks were caused.

“This type of garment is notorious, is it not, for moving?” Brendan Kelly QC, Mr Jackson’s barrister, asked the forensics officer.

To a ripple of uneasy laughter in the public gallery, she replied that she would assume so, but it was not her area of expertise.

Such was the complexity of the blood marks on the garment, it was determined that the exhibit itself should be brought back before the court, rather than relying on diagrams and photographs."

Note the joke from the defence barrister.

My assumption on reading that is that it is the defence who argued the bloodstains were "complex" and so the knickers needed to be seen in real life. Rather then the defence. Happy to be corrected but the article doesn't say who requested, and from reading that I'd imagine the defence.

That "joke" I mean fucking disgusting.

The bottom line with this the reason the defence always works hard to get clothes / underwear/ past behaviour admissable (if that's the word) is because that is what is so pivotal in lots of cases.
Essentially

Look at these knickers
She's a bit of a tart
Probably up for it
If not well she led him on what did she expect look at those pants
Is it right to ruin the life of a man on the word of some tart???

They do not say that out loud,
In so many words
But that is the hook they need.
Misogyny runs deep and the desire to protect "good men" or even not good but talented / successful men.

Whole thing's a joke.

It's obvious how the content of womens phones will be used.

I take the garment being notorious for moving as to mean down - dropping them.

Thongs don't tend to move about as they're tight and usually wedged between your bum cheeks.

I take the garment being notorious for moving as to mean down - dropping them.

Ugh. I hadn't seen it like that. I was a bit bemused about what they actually meant.

The amount of men I have seen saying this is great 'because false accusations ruin lives and are very common' is disgusting. As is this decision. Imagine if you had to hand over phones or laptops or whatever when reporting say..a burglary. Just incase you had been planning to do it as an insurance scam. With assaults, because you could have planned it yourself or something. There would be absolute hell on.

Similar to what a PP said i think sooner or later women will go on some kind of sex/relationship strike and just withdraw from dating.

Its the rush to be Cool Girl.

And its not just uppity women here who think this is wrong. Max Hill QC, head of the CPS also think this policy is wrong and said it wouldn't happen

Here is a link to a tweet from Max Hill re: the position of the CPS.

twitter.com/MaxHillQC/status/1123696286035775488

Sadly, I have heard young women say the same thing. How did things regress so much?

Yup,. since my post I have seen a fair few women say this too. Its just baffling, when men are like 15x more likely to be flalsely convicted of murder than of rape. And hundreds of times more likely to BE raped than be falsely accused.

Yet always so much focus on false accusations, when studies have found a great number of 6 men per year are arrested on a false accusation, and 2 see a court room. I mean, yeah its bad for those 6, but..is it really something to be calling an endemic, and something that 'ruins many lives'..meanwhile, rape actually does ruin many many lives but is almost always the victims fault. Unless the victim is a man, in which case they are generally believed without question. Its vile.

I wonder if they'll ask the victims of burglaries to do the same. In case, you know, it might have been an insurance scam.

I wonder if they'll ask the victims of burglaries to do the same. In case, you know, it might have been an insurance scam

If the defendant in a burglary case raised the defense that the home-owner had agreed he could take his belongings, then I would have thought so. [especially if there is no damage to the property or physical evidence of a forced entry]. If you were the investigating officer, wouldn't you look further into it ?

Any burglary could be an insurance job. They are pretty common.

Of a burglar said the owner had asked them to burgle the house, wouldn't the police say, is there any evidence of that, and if the burglar said text messages then have a look?

Rather than going off immediately and confiscating potentially all electronics with communication capability immediately?

Are people who report burglaries immediately given a form to say they might have all their stuff taken for evidence and if they say no then police /cps are unlikely to proceed?

Note the response to that cps tweet is women shouting about all the men in prison after being falsely accused of rape :/

Also note the letter the cps man thinks is balanced feels its 'regrettable' if this move puts victims off reporting, but will worth it.

There is NEVER any consideration of, is there something we can do that works all round, something that is effective and proportionate.

There needs to be a total rethink on sex offences, sadly no one really cares. The victims include children and men so you'd think they might, but I suppose the desire to protect the majority who commit rape, not 'rape rape' (to quote whoopieholdberg) is very strong.

Of course people care - and also the desire for a fair trial is very strong.

I still can't get over the case where girl was persuaded on Watsapp to send topless pic to man. She was 13 or 14 I think.

Told mum went to police, they told her they would have to consider prosecuting her for sex offence of sharing images of child.

MN at time loads of women said this was great :/

No mention anywhere of the police even thinking about looking for the man.

MN who thought it was good, also none of them, hardly anyone seemed to pick up that the man was a criminal, probably doing this to other girls, maybe they should look into him.

Victim blaming is entirely embedded in our culture when it comes to sex offences.

Also note the letter the cps man thinks is balanced feels its 'regrettable' if this move puts victims off reporting, but will worth it.

Saw a woman say yesterday that it is better for those 2 men who see a courtroom per year (this does not mean conviction either, far from it) should be priority over all else. As there is nothing worse than being falsely accused of a crime. I shit you not

Saw a woman say yesterday that those 2 men who see a courtroom per year (this does not mean conviction either, far from it) should be priority over all else.

even

Sawdust I disagree.

People don't care.

This is evidenced time and time and time again.

Rotherham
Savile
Children's homes
Recent revelations about various charities
Public perception surveys (asking for it)
Warboys
Etc etc

People think they care. But actually. No they don't. Only in extreme cases is there real outrage.

It would be more honest to legalise.

In reality it is legal to rape girls and women between about 14 and 60.

That's the truth.

As long as you don't beat them to shit or kill them as well, sometimes that's fine too though. Rough sex innit the girls all love it these days, shame they're so fragile.