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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is it possible to be feminine and gender critical at the same time?

84 replies

RussellSprout · 28/04/2019 21:44

I have recently become, due to peak trans and just general awareness of all the trans bollocks, fairly gender critical in that I think we're all just people who happen to have male or female chromosomes/genitals and why does everyone have to define themselves as a man or a woman when its very easy to tell what you are, just look between your legs... ie biology defines this.
So you could say I'm gender critical/agender/don't believe in the concept of gender and gender stereotypes in society.

However, as an individual I'm quite a feminine woman. I like dresses, heels, makeup. I work in a female dominated profession. I'll happily let my husband do the DIY around the house cos I have no interest in it. I'm comfortable with being perceived as being a woman by others.

Sometimes I'm not sure if this is at odds with my new gender critical status. Is it right that I conform to female stereotypes myself whilst being aware of the rights of others not to have to do so?

I'm happily feminine and don't feel the need to resist feminine stereotypes personally, nor do so for my daughter (I'll let her play with whatever toys she wants/dress how she wants.... won't stop her from playing with princesses and pink, but won't discourage her from boys toys/colours either. She usually goes for the pink stuff) . But does that make me hypocritical?

OP posts:
LassOfFyvie · 30/04/2019 15:54

There was absolutely nothing 'sneering' or 'condescending' in anything I've written

I'm not the only person who thought your post was condescending.

LassOfFyvie · 30/04/2019 16:09

No,Floisme. You don't know the first thing about me or my grandmother

It was quite obvious Flo was using "your gran" in the same generic way you did. Your reply to Flo was rude and a bit dim.

Goosefoot · 30/04/2019 16:12

In terms of talking about feminine or masculine social conventions that might be rooted in biology, I think clothing is about the least likely of things to be a candidate for that. So much about clothing is arbitrary or a social accident, totally apart from male and female conventions. Why are stonewashed jeans popular again? Not really for any good, logical reason.

Social conventions attaching sex to clothing styles is mainly about a way for men and women to communicate or highlight sex differences. In some cases of course there are no differences in the clothing, men and women signal their differences in other ways. What you won't find, though, is a society where men and women are uninterested in those differences.
If you want to look at biologically based stereotypes about men and women, men as being more aggressive is probably a good one. It's quite common across cultures, and also quite common across mammal species. Or the sterotype that women are more nurturing. Of course this varies a lot, but it probably comes out of the mothering instinct, which includes nursing the infant. In all mammals, if the mother doesn't do this, there is a really high chance of the infant not surviving, so you would expect that human mothers would also have instincts to that end, and they might well effect behaviour in other social contexts as well.
Something else that might be considered is the different developmental arc of boys and girls with language. This seems to be biologically based, and could relate to associations of femininity with language and talking, as opposed to men being more laconic.

RuffleCrow · 30/04/2019 16:20

Lass you still haven't said what you find contradictory. I suspect there's no actual substance to your hectoring, it's just your 'way'. Your replies are needlessly confrontational and don't engage with the issues at stake.

jellyfrizz · 30/04/2019 17:35

If you want to look at biologically based stereotypes about men and women, men as being more aggressive is probably a good one. It's quite common across cultures, and also quite common across mammal species.

How much of this is social conditioning though? When young boys play fight they are encouraged when girls do the same they are stopped. Same with nurturing, how many boys are given baby dolls? Or mini cleaning sets?

There are mammals species in which the females are definitely in charge and use aggression so it's not inevitable; spotted hyenas, African elephants, orcas, limas, bonobos.....

jellyfrizz · 30/04/2019 17:40

"Some researchers believe the difference in language development is innate, but this study suggests that adults may treat infant girls differently than infant boys at a very young age, which may help explain the difference, she said."

www.reuters.com/article/us-parent-baby-communication/parent-infant-communication-differs-by-gender-shortly-after-birth-idUSKBN0IO1KU20141104

I'm sure I've seen more studies on this too but can't find them right now.

jellyfrizz · 30/04/2019 17:44

www.nytimes.com/2017/06/15/well/family/talking-to-boys-the-way-we-talk-to-girls.html

Good article on men being more laconic.

Blahdeblahbahhhhh · 30/04/2019 18:34

I am ‘feminine’. So was my brother as a child. He is an artsy heterosexual male married for 15years to a woman.
I think it’s a mistake to attach feminine or masculine stereotypes to the male and female sex. It doesn’t really have much to do with it. I’m happily feminine but I have no problem with my son being so as well. He is and will always be male regardless. Femininity and masculinity are so so so societally made up as to be almost irrelevant.

Blahdeblahbahhhhh · 30/04/2019 18:37

There are clearly some sex differences between men and women. The exact extent is still not really well understood since we insist of bringing gender inappropriately into children’s experiences at such a young age.

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