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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Asked to do work survey on transgender in workplace and includes gender neutral toilets. Help me respond in 600 words

13 replies

WorkSurvey · 28/04/2019 10:46

I support trans rights but not when it might diminish women’s rights. I’m aware that gender neutral will probably mean a female toilet gets the chop. I want to respond but need help!

I’ve just read this article which seems to help but it’s well over my word count allowance.
www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes

“On the face of it, it may seem fair and equitable to accord male and female public toilets the same amount of space – and historically, this is the way it has been done: 50/50 division of floor space has even been formalised in plumbing codes. However, if a male toilet has both cubicles and urinals, the number of people who can relieve themselves at once is far higher per square foot of floor space in the male bathroom than in the female bathroom. Suddenly equal floor space isn’t so equal.
But even if male and female toilets had an equal number of stalls, the issue wouldn’t be resolved, because women take up to 2.3 times as long as men to use the toilet. Women make up the majority of the elderly and disabled, two groups that will tend to need more time in the toilet. Women are also more likely to be accompanied by children, as well as disabled and older people. Then there’s the 20–25% of women of childbearing age who may be on their period at any one time, and therefore need to change a tampon or a sanitary pad.
Women may also require more trips to the bathroom: pregnancy significantly reduces bladder capacity, and women are eight times more likely to suffer from urinary-tract infections. In the face of all these anatomical differences, it would surely take a formal equality dogmatist to continue to argue that equal floor space between men and women is fair.”

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NottonightJosepheen · 28/04/2019 11:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WorkSurvey · 28/04/2019 11:14

Thanks Jo.
I should add that work is a large organisation (8000+ employees) in Ireland which will likely influence a lot of other companies and is across the country. Work think I’m woke but I have not drunk the kool aid.

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titchy · 28/04/2019 11:20

Just say you support the addition of gender neutral toilets, subject to them satisfying current health and safety legislation (in the U.K. this would include a sanitary bin, floor to ceiling doors and a sink within the cubicle). Then suggest, as biological females take more than twice as long to use the toilet than biological males do, that one or two of the current Male toilets are re-designated as the gender neutral ones. Point out this would also alleviate any concerns colleagues from the Islamic or Jewish communities would have about there being sufficient single sex facilities for them to use.

TheInebriati · 28/04/2019 11:30

I'd go with Tichy's suggestion of turning some of the mens toilets mixed sex, since men are less impacted - they don't menstruate or suffer a miscarriage, they are less likely to have been the victims of sexual assault by the opposite sex.
Make sure you call them mixed sex toilets and not gender neutral.

R0wantrees · 28/04/2019 11:34

Many women & girls do not want mixed sex (aka gender neutral) toilets.

See
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6065075/Female-Home-Office-employees-refusing-use-new-36-000-gender-neutral-toilets.html

butteryellow · 28/04/2019 12:19

I think that going at it from a numbers point of view is a good way - it's logical, and can't be refuted unlike a 'feelings' argument.

What's the existing provision? How is it currently utilised? Are there issues with women queuing at all?

There was a woman who spoke at one of the women's events recently - she knew all about toilets.

EggsAgain · 28/04/2019 12:34

There are some figures from yougov that show that women take longer to use the toilet and use it for more reasons than men, which might be helpful. Evidence is always a good thing:
yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/03/20/potty-parity-would-it-be-fairer-make-womens-toilet

Hearwegoagain · 28/04/2019 13:35

Have sent you a DM.

Lichtie · 28/04/2019 14:22

I would say your original suggestion / article probably misses the point. If you were going to look at it from that perspective you would need to look at the breakdown of the 8000 people that work for the company. Is it 50:50 male / female.
Yes females are more likely to be classed as disabled, and as we live longer there are more older females, and yes we are probably more likely to take children to the toilet, but are these a workplace issue? A company the size you talk of surely has disabled facilities, people don't take their kids to work, and a lot of old people retire.
Would you not be better framing it as a safety / comfort issue?

R0wantrees · 28/04/2019 14:29

There's a lot of relevent information & links within a recent thread about successful challenge made to Civil Service:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3520371-civil-service-trans-policy-what-can-i-do

WorkSurvey · 28/04/2019 14:34

Thanks all. Lots to think about. I’ll start to pull something together and post here for your thoughts.

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