Feminism and Climate Change

[ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving]

I've been thinking a lot about climate change recently with all the Xr protests going on. Call me naive but I really didn't realise things were that bad. I mean, I knew they were bad, but I thought we were on track to fix it. I thought we had time to fanny around with recycling and reusable coffee cups. Reading the Xr website and seeing the phrase "mass extinction event" used over and over really got to me. I thought things were going in the right direction, but it turns out we're at ground zero. My own fault for having my head in the sand and not looking deeper into it. Anyway, I was thinking about the ways this all intersects with feminism:

1. Reproductive rights . Clearly over population is a big problem here. On the one hand, increasing access to abortion, contraception, and sex education helps with this. But any attempts to limit population growth in a more active way, such as through legislation, will necessarily infringe on women's rights. China's "single child" policy is an obvious example of this, with it's double effect of not only controlling women's reproduction but also increasing sex selective abortions/ the murder of female infants.

1. Consumerism . Rightly or wrongly, when it comes to things like food shopping, gift buying, and fashion, women have a lot more consumer power than man. Obviously this ties into patriarchal expectations such as women being "just better" at gift buying, women doing the food shop because they're SAHPs, and pressure on women to wear the last fashion which lead to the rise of cheap "fast fashion" like Primark. Under patriarchy we earn less of the money, but in many ways have a lot more say in how it's spent.

1. Unpaid labour . A lot of the stuff we're encouraged to do at an individual level to halt CC comes down to an increase in unpaid labour. Off the top of my head this includes sorting and cleaning things to be recycled, washing reusable nappies, researching and buying eco friendly products, and taking longer over cleaning jobs from using less effective but greener cleaning products. This increase in labour disproportionately affects women.

1. Politics . The main green political party in this country has aligned itself against women and alienated thousands of it's female voters. Women are being excluded from women only short lists. The ability of girls to participate fully in education is being reduced. We are seeing first hand how poorly female activists are treated by the police. In short, climate change activism and feminism have a large cross over, and in many ways a lot of the power for change is in female hands, but women are being excluded at a political and social level, and being discouraged from activism. We need more power but even the small amount we have is being taken from us.

So, those were my thoughts so far. How do we re-engage women in green politics? How do we make the changes that we need to make as a society when many of those changes will disproportionately disadvantage women? How do we balance our fight for women's rights with our desire to not go extinct?

. It would certainly be possible to eat that way and a lot of people used to most of the time if they were poor, though the calorie density wouldn't be great. But I think most people these days would find it really limiting.

I’ve said a few times in the thread, it’s not limiting, it is enjoyable and entirely possible- and very healthy and nutrient dense. How many vegans do you know well enough to know what they eat? Are you basing it on what you see on Instagram? That’s not a realistic portrayal of what vegans eat, which can be sustainable and local- we are growing our own vertical dry beans this year even. By all means chose not to go plant based, but please don’t keep saying it’s not possible to do it well, cheaply and sustainably if you’re not doing it yourself. We’re doing it, we eat well and are thoroughly enjoying our life.

But that you are doing it and like it really isn't relevant to whether or not other people do it, are willing to do it, would find it simple, or whether they would like it. Lots of people find eating local more difficult, lots of people find eating vegan more difficult, lots of people find eating on a budget or with limited facilities difficult. If you put them all together, they are going to find it difficult.

Marathons. And I'll add all the other high visibility, highly organised, virtue signalling look at me charity events.

BBC News - London Marathon: How do you reduce the environmental impact?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-48064102

I think it's a shame running marathons has become synonymous with fundraising for the runners I know who just enjoy running in the way I enjoy cycling and some people play tennis or golf. My ex used to run and did London and New York marathons. We did a sponsor thing for the first but hated asking for donations and ended up giving most of the money ourselves and didn't bother with the second one. Agree that these far flung sporting events are very environmentally unfriendly. Going to NY to run 26 miles is daft, but then we did combine it with a holiday. At least it isn't destroying the environment as much as all the Everest climbers.
I used to love Orienteering which is runners no through forests which sounds environmentally friendly but few events are accessible by public transport.

"Which is running through forests". An autocorrect snuck in

I've just started getting my shopping from Sainsburys rather than ASDA and they have a filter system that will refine by both vegan and Brtish which is quite handy.

I was thinking about the dietary traffic lights system they have on lots of food, where it lists and colour codes the salt/ fat/ calorie content to help people make healthy choices without much extra thinking. An eco version of that would be really handy I think. You could have land usage, water usage, CO2 emissions, and how climate friendly the product was overall. Oatly have started doing something like that.

If you put them all together, they are going to find it difficult.

In your opinion based on no actual experience. I disagree. Most vegans I know eat sustainably and as locally as possible, it’s not something we discuss as difficult. That includes by Mum on a very tight budget in another country. You think people would find it limiting, in your opinion. It is my opinion that in reality it’s not like that and people would find it satisfying if they tried, like we all have.

Really interesting thread. I think one big change in UK in a generation is how few people grow their own fruit and veg now. Previously everyone would have had a patch and grown something. Then swapped stuff with neighbours if you had too much etc. We moved out of town to have a big garden and grow loads now. Last year we were eating from the garden from April/May right through till Christmas. I could extend this more but haven’t quite organised myself with winter crops yet. Ok it’s not enough to live on but majority of fresh veg and a good amount of fresh fruit we eat in summer and autumn is home grown. The advantages include saving money, being more active (by gardening) eating more healthily as well as the reduced food miles, zero waste etc. It’s also a great way to get kids to understand where food comes from.
Gardens generally are great for insects and I’ve gone for lots of bee friendly plants and flowers, as well as planting native hedging which will produce berries and hips to feed the birds.
City living reduces opportunities to grow your own but there are still some things you can grow inside if there is sunlight and space to grow it.
It’s something a lot of people in UK could do if it was encouraged and on a population level it would have some impact

Plus it’s really good fun and great for your mental health too

I have an allotment but allotments are an inefficient way of producing food. It's like going back to the strip system we had pre-agricultural revolution or everyone having a croft. I spent today sewing mesh together for a frame to keep the wildlife off.

Snap, Kilbranan.
My garden won't change the world, nor will yours bit it's a tiny positive thing.

Not a particularly feminist thing, but there's a group called We Are The Ark. It's about rewilding, building a network of wildlife havens even if just a wild corner of your garden.

Doing something is always better than nothing.

"In your opinion based on no actual experience. I disagree. Most vegans I know eat sustainably and as locally as possible, it’s not something we discuss as difficult. That includes by Mum on a very tight budget in another country. You think people would find it limiting, in your opinion. It is my opinion that in reality it’s not like that and people would find it satisfying if they tried, like we all have."

You have no idea what my experience is.
People who are already vegan are not exactly representative, are they? People who find it easy will of course keep eating that way.

I really don't know what you are trying to say here. People have a hard time making these kinds of dietary changes, whether you think they ought to or not. All you have to do is read and talk to people to know that this is the case.

rebecca can’t be less efficient than shipping food halfway round the world!

Eating only locally-produced is perfectly reasonable when only a small proportion of society is doing it. It's not feasible to feed all 65 million in the UK people on locally-produced food. As a country we haven't been self-sufficient in food for a couple of hundred years and we're not likely to be any time in the near future.

can’t be less efficient than shipping food halfway round the world!

It's much more efficient to grow food using industrial methods in locations best suited to a particular crop and then ship them around the world than it is to grow a mixture of crops by hand in little plots scattered all over the place. That's why food is so much cheaper now than it ever has been.

It is more efficient aka cheaper. It is not what is best for the environment.

it. It's not feasible to feed all 65 million in the UK people on locally-produced food. As a country we haven't been self-sufficient in food for a couple of hundred years and we're not likely to be any time in the near future.

It’s true certain crops would only work well in certain countries so complete self sufficiency is not always a realistic goal- there is one country that does it I believe. But to reduce imports to only those reality required is an achievable and worthy goal. Like, why is anyone in Britain buying New Zealand apples? You have great apples here!

Goosefoot you have insisted a few times that it’s limiting or difficult, and as someone who actually lives this way, I’m saying it’s not. If others want to excuse themselves from trying because they perceive it’s difficult or not enjoyable, that’s their choice but I will continue to argue the opposite is true because I know it is, and because we actually need others to try. I’m trying to change people’s thinking so that we stand a chance, rather than be defeatist or make excuses for others that I know are not real in practice. I’ve helped plenty of others make similar changes too so I know that while slightly inconvenient at first, this type of habit changing and conscious shopping is achievable and does not feel limiting. ‘Others find it difficult’ is an excuse and honestly, irrelevant. What is far more difficult, is climate change and the devastating impact that will have and is already having.

I appreciate the passion here, but I'm a bit meh that it's become another thread to have a disagreement about environmental measures on a personal level without reference to the ways in which women will bear the brunt of the consequences whichever way things move forward and how to mitigate that.

In fact we're now at the stage where some posters seem to be saying "Yeah, it makes women's lives harder, but so what, that's not as important." which really doesn't seem in the spirit of the OP.

I was vegetarian from age 9 to age 18 through choice related to ethics.
From age 18 I had to rely on whatever food was around due to poverty. I couldn't afford to buy and cook my own.

I had 3 children and once I was single again I wanted us to become vegetarian but was so knackered and broke and it was really v hard to make the shift. I found it hard to think about changing my routines and what we tended to eat.
I have chronic fatigue and we all have sensory issues so food we all eat together is tricky.

I had heard about Carol Adams' work discussed in feminist circles and that got me thinking.
My youngest also went through that phase all my children went through where he questioned eating meat.

That combined to encourage me to make the shift.
But it wasn't as easy as it would have been if I had more money.
If I made a meal that wasn't nice we would still have had to eat it.
I couldn't afford things like jackfruit that are really tasty.
I wouldn't have had the confidence to make my own Seiten. That took about 7 years.
And this even though I had experience of eating vegetarian food and a strong preference for it.

I think it's important to stress the feminist side of being vegan/eco friendly but we shouldn't use alienating language to do so.

We shouldn't dismiss the difficulties or be black and white about it.

I appreciate the passion here, but I'm a bit meh that it's become another thread to have a disagreement about environmental measures on a personal level without reference to the ways in which women will bear the brunt of the consequences whichever way things move forward and how to mitigate that.

Agree.

(I speak, though, as a woman whose aged father does uncomfortably more than his fair share on her allotment. Oops.)

Now that's interesting Lang - my in-laws are very gardeny people, and have kept an allotment for decades, and they also have a large veg plot in their garden. Large chest freezer to accommodate their produce, they share the surplus and so on. FIL has not long had a knee OP which put him out of action and they had to wind down a lot of the allotment because MIL, who is the kind of woman who irons her husband's socks and pants works from dawn to dusk anyway, was already at full stretch and couldn't do his work as well to compensate.

SuperLoudPoppingAction we have two in our family with autism and one with quite severe sensory food issues, and I have multiple chronic illness including a new one just discovered this week, so I too have chronic fatigue amongst other things! So I understand the challenges. I’m afraid I’m still going to disagree, with this being such a serious issue, I think it’s entirely appropriate to be black and white about it particularly when the poorest in the world will suffer the most because of decisions and lifestyles chosen by others in richer countries. I’m not suggesting there are not challenges in unique situations, but most of us with access to supermarkets have the ability to make different choices without too much difficulty.

I appreciate the passion here, but I'm a bit meh that it's become another thread to have a disagreement about environmental measures on a personal level without reference to the ways in which women will bear the brunt of the consequences whichever way things move forward and how to mitigate that.

I would love to have a conversation about that. I have felt the need to defend the lifestyle I lead, more out of a sense of dispelling myths.

How do you think we can mitigate it?

Perhaps we should pay some attention to Deep Green Resistence.
^The organization's official website states that "DGR strives to be a radical organization in every respect, including our approach to feminist struggles."[13] DGR's radical feminism views gender, by definition, as a social system created by patriarchy to coercively and violently control behavior of both males and females; however, within this system, men and masculinity are privileged, while women are trained into subordinated behavior and routinely targeted for institutionalized and socially sanctioned violence due to their sex and/or gender role.[citation needed]

DGR's stance on gender has led some to interpret DGR as transphobic.[14] The controversy especially swelled when a transitioning member of DGR, identifying as a woman, requested to join a women's communal sleeping and showering space and, later, a women's caucus space; the women's caucus discussed the issue collectively and ultimately denied the applicant, citing that ".[13] A year after this, Aric McBay claimed he "left the organization at the beginning of 2012 after a trans inclusive policy was cancelled by Derrick Jensen and Lierre Keith. Many good people and good activists left the organization for that reason. I find these transphobic attitudes to be disgusting and deeply troubling...."[15][16][17] DGR released a note in response to McBay's statement, claiming that "the right of women to define their own spaces" is central to how the organization operates [18] and that McBay's departure was by mutual agreement, after trying to force out founders Derrick Jensen and Lierre Keith.^

Now that's interesting Lang - my in-laws are very gardeny people, and have kept an allotment for decades, and they also have a large veg plot in their garden. Large chest freezer to accommodate their produce, they share the surplus and so on. FIL has not long had a knee OP which put him out of action and they had to wind down a lot of the allotment because MIL, who is the kind of woman who irons her husband's socks and pants works from dawn to dusk anyway, was already at full stretch and couldn't do his work as well to compensate.

Indeed. I think, in our case, it's worked fairly well overall. As discussed on the thread, there is a commitment level required. And, as you say, whenever there is a commitment level required domestically, feminists should be asking questions about on whom this commitment will fall.

Family dynamics are important. In our case, the allotment was always part of the chore schedule for the kids. And it's interesting to see that they keep that up of their own volition even now they are grown - but it's not so much to help me, but more to maintain a relationship with their grandfather. And my father uses it more now to keep busy and form friendships with other allotmenters since my mum died.

Both these things have meant that the domestic commitment required by an allotment hasn't been centred on me. So that's good! However, the downside is that there are regular intra-family power battles over what should be grown!

Yes, I was looking at DGR the other day. I guess that was probably some of the basis for my earlier comments about revolution - that kind of truly radical change of approach is inspiring and frightening and seems totally out of reach all at the same time.

Jessica, how do we mitigate it? I don't rightly know, which is why I was very interested in the thread to begin with, because I've come to see the value in a multiplicity of women's voices when it comes to solving the problems which affect them.

I think most everyone here agrees with personal responsibility and integrity and wants to do their part and is already engaged. This isn't a group of women who think the whole thing is nonsense so let's just go for a drive and spend an afternoon in the new Birmingham Primark.

We're all coming from different perspectives too - some have mentioned being Londoners, and that will provide a very different perspective to a small town further north, for example. I'm continually amazed at the lifestyle differences I see just in that simple comparison and the assumptions that go with it.

I work a low paid job, rely on public transport, and have more than 2 kids. I stretch a menu budget, don't have a lot of free time as I also volunteer. I know a lot of exhausted women who are run ragged, and barely have the headspace to plan a menu for the following day, let alone sit and research bulk vinegar purchases and so forth. I just think there are an awful lot of assumptions in some suggestions that are pegged as 'easy' that don't understand the reality of life for some women, and do nothing to help or encourage those women to do anything at all.

Talking about the systemic changes is not passing the buck and saying there's no point doing anything - it's about acknowledging that you really need to have that dratted phrase 'joined up thinking', because if you don't you are just rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.

I am not a climate change sceptic - I think I was the first person on the thread to mention Permaculture ideas, and I don't think climate change is anything other than a priority. But no, I would not be happy if we save the planet by further oppressing women. If we're going to have a future as a species on this planet, and if it's going to require radical action, I think we can build in to that radical action an understanding that women are not the collateral we can afford to exploit.