AMA Trans thread got me thinking about the terms cis/trans...

[StopThePlanet]

You'd think 'cis' and 'trans' would both be offensive to trans individuals that use Latin origins as base definitions.

For reference, here are the definitions: Latin: cis = "this side of" and tra = "the other side of/across from". This would denote that 'cis' people are on one side and trans people are fully transitioned and on the other side of their biological sex (which is incorrect as changing gender does not equal changing sex and most trans people do not fully transition - as per stats released by UK, US, et al).

Do trans individuals want to be looked at and see themselves as being on the other side of/across from 99%+ of the Earth's population?

I doubt it.

The more logical, more kind, and rational perspective would be:

(a) Cis is redundant - an unnecessary prefix as it defines a default i.e. humans are sexually dimorphic thus... men are male and women are female based on biological sex regardless of gender presentation.

(b) Trans is a great prefix as it denotes a spectrum of variants on default i.e. humans are sexually dimorphic but some feel that their biological sex is mismatched with their sense/feel of their desired/perceived sex thus transmen are females that sense/feel like what they believe it is to be male and transwomen are males that sense/feel like what they believe it is to be female. Trans people are forever trans (unless they desist) even after full transition as it is scientifically impossible to convert to the sex opposite of birth.

How can I refine/condense these statements to be more mentally accessible to those that are towing the TWAW/TMAM narrative? Looking to have thoughtful and respectful conversations with the aforementioned - please help!!!

I’ve never noticed ‘cis’ as a prefix. However with trans we have words like transatlantic, transports, transparent.
Are there words like that that start with cis?

'Cis' is used to make women a subset of women.

So in trans theory, there are two types of women - some male and some female.

I have no idea what the definition of woman is to make this logical, though.

Are there words like that that start with cis?

Some woke fool on Twitter tried to claim that "cis-Atlantic" was in common use the other day. Twitter disagreed and the woman flounced because she "couldn't be bothered" to put up a decent argument.

Cis was seized upon as a way to make trans a subset of women rather than men as Zutt said. Which is why the TWAW brigade will tell you you're racist and disablist too if you don't fully embrace their version of intersectional feminism (which is another phrase they've coopted)

cis-trans sounds like a rail franchise. CardIff & Swansea? Cumbria-into-Scotland?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I’ll accept cis when they accept pseudo. If we have to accept cis because it is Latin then it won’t be hard to accept pseudo because it’s Greek.

Indeed, it is not intended to be logical or make any sense. It has a political purpose.

The purpose is to create a false equality between “cis women” and “trans women”. You could perfectly well talk about real women, actual women, female women instead of “cis” and everyone would know what you meant.

That of course implies that “trans women” are not real women. Although this is true, it is unacceptable to the trans fanatics.

The purpose of trans+cis is to embed the false idea in people's minds that men who identify as women are just as much women as women who actually are women.

And to set up a false axis of privilege where a group of male people experience worse sex based oppression than women.

That's why I think closing the gap after trans is so crucial -- NOT to use it if you don't believe that transwomen are real women.
If you say trans woman, trans becomes just another adjective like tall, blonde, foreign to the basic word woman. It validates "woman".
Transwoman clarifies (sort of) that they are actually different; not really women at all.

at the risk of deletion -whatever happened to the AMA trans man thread? I was hoping for enlightenment on a number of questions asked .....

As you were.

Oops just seen that MNHQ are investigating behind the scenes ...

Don’t risk deletion by responding to me.

Argh, it’s been a long day, and there’s still quite a lot of it to go.

Transwoman clarifies (sort of) that they are actually different; not really women at all.

It's still a concession too far for me. I don't ever call male people women.

It’s a concession too far for me too these days. I’ll get deleted if I use the term I sometimes use (hint: it rhymes with ‘dim’) but man, frankly, is what I’d like to always use.

@StopThePlanet
It's perfect as it is.

No need to rewrite it at all.

Screenshot your (a) & (b) and share it around everywhere ppl are debating 'cis'.

With your permission may I also screenshot and share on MeWe? With credit to you.

Precision in language is important. I am uneasy with "cis" but haven't been able to put my finger on why (despite reading these boards for months). It is useful in many contexts to have a word that describes A, and a word that describes not-A. In my experience, most people don't like being described by a negative word or prefix, which is one reason why completely etymologically different phrases pop up. So in the United States there are white people and people of color, and in New Zealand, Maori and pakeha. You could logically speak of non-white people or non-Maori people, but a better word or phrase exists.

So what about people who are not transgender? I.e. most of the world. We could be referred to as non-trans, in circumstances where that is relevant, but maybe that sounds even more ugly than cis. In most circumstances it isn't necessary to use any such expression, but when it is, what is it to be?

"Heterosexuals" didn't exist until "homosexuals" had been invented. Sometimes defining a default, as the OP put it, is important. We don't want to go back to the days (and language) of most people being seen and seeing themselves as "normal" and those weirdos over there being seen as (and indeed sometimes seeing no other alternative but to see themselves as) deviant.

There are men and there are women. Some men want you to pretend they are women; some women want you to pretend they are men. ‘Trans’ has always been a nonsense term because nobody is crossing from one sex to the other. We gave up too much ground when we accepted ‘trans’ out of politeness or apathy.

I agree. I don't agree the word simply means "not trans". It presupposes an ideological framework I don't buy into or see the need for.

But, Always, there does need to be a term for people who were born as one sex but present as the other.
For example, a woman presents at the hospital with abdominal pains, they need to be able to explain why it’s not worth checking if they are pregnant.

Some people are trans and we need to be able to say that, however I don’t think that I need to be called cis. Just ‘a woman’ will do.
By labelling like this we create barriers.

Larry - if a woman presents at hospital with abdominal pains, they need t rule out pregnancy. If they are a transwoman they are a man so can't get pregnant

Exactly. So that person needs to be able to say ‘I can’t be pregnant, I am a transwoman’. There needs to be a word to differentiate from women.

People don’t present as the other sex; they present as the other gender. They’ve even conceded this point by rebranding themselves transgender instead of transsexual.

I don’t feel the need to refer to myself two-legs when I’m talking to somebody with none. In fact, that would be bloody rude.

And you can bet that if I kept reminding somebody who is trans that I’m ‘cis’ - and didn’t do it in a grovelingly apologetic manner - they’d flip out over it.

‘Cis’ is an ideologically loaded term associated with shame. If you said ‘I’m cis and I’m proud of it’ they’d lose their shit.

There needs to be a word to differentiate from women

There is. It’s three letters long and begins with ‘m’.

LarryGreysonsDoor

I've heard of very few words with prefix 'cis' used in the way 'cis' is used in the trans community. I can think of one right now - cisalpine (south/Roman side of the Alps) but I think it could refer to the north side of the Alps as well since 'cis' doesn't mean 'north or south of' as determining position of 'this side' or 'other side' lies with the beholder.

‘Cis’ is an ideologically loaded term associated with shame. If you said ‘I’m cis and I’m proud of it’ they’d lose their shit.

This.

"For example, a woman presents at the hospital with abdominal pains, they need to be able to explain why it’s not worth checking if they are pregnant."

All they'd need to say is, "actually I'm biologically male?" As in "I'm biologically related to so and so but we don't awknowledge it".