AMA Trans thread got me thinking about the terms cis/trans...

[StopThePlanet]

You'd think 'cis' and 'trans' would both be offensive to trans individuals that use Latin origins as base definitions.

For reference, here are the definitions: Latin: cis = "this side of" and tra = "the other side of/across from". This would denote that 'cis' people are on one side and trans people are fully transitioned and on the other side of their biological sex (which is incorrect as changing gender does not equal changing sex and most trans people do not fully transition - as per stats released by UK, US, et al).

Do trans individuals want to be looked at and see themselves as being on the other side of/across from 99%+ of the Earth's population?

I doubt it.

The more logical, more kind, and rational perspective would be:

(a) Cis is redundant - an unnecessary prefix as it defines a default i.e. humans are sexually dimorphic thus... men are male and women are female based on biological sex regardless of gender presentation.

(b) Trans is a great prefix as it denotes a spectrum of variants on default i.e. humans are sexually dimorphic but some feel that their biological sex is mismatched with their sense/feel of their desired/perceived sex thus transmen are females that sense/feel like what they believe it is to be male and transwomen are males that sense/feel like what they believe it is to be female. Trans people are forever trans (unless they desist) even after full transition as it is scientifically impossible to convert to the sex opposite of birth.

How can I refine/condense these statements to be more mentally accessible to those that are towing the TWAW/TMAM narrative? Looking to have thoughtful and respectful conversations with the aforementioned - please help!!!

Cis: same
Trans: opposite

Ciswoman = same thing as a woman = woman (cis is redundant)
Transwoman = opposite thing to a woman (man)

If trans people won't tell medical professionals what their biological sexual is then they're pretty dim. I tell them my medical history because it's relevant.

LarryGreysonsDoor

If a man who identifies as a woman presents at the hospital with abdominal pains and medical practitioners can’t rule or that they don’t need a pregnancy test by very fact they are men then they should be stripped of their licenses.

The problem now is transwomen don’t want to have to show up and say “I am a transwoman”. They want to say they are women. I’ve seen them even say they are a biological female. It does not matter what women call themselves, as men will want to call themselves it as well. I don’t think women should had to modify the word woman for themselves at all.

The word to differentiate from ‘woman’ is ‘man’.

If trans people won't tell medical professionals what their biological sexual is then they're pretty dim. I tell them my medical history because it's relevant.

This. Do you think if a transman went into the ER hemorrhaging from their uterus they would just neglect to mention at admissions that they are biologically a woman? I am guessing not, and if they did they are being ridiculous.

Well there are some transwomen who say they have periods.........

Saying they have periods does not mean they do. And again, if a medical practitioner does not know that they should lose their license to practice.

And that makes the point doesn’t it? Why do you think a transwomen who says they have periods wants a word to define themselves as something different than women?

For the record, reading some of your posts it appears that some of you are not aware that I am not a 'cis' prefix supporter.

If you can't tell that I am a 'cis' prohibitionist by my original post I wonder if I have found the right words to communicate these thoughts? As we know, in order to make progress we have to converse with those with differing perspectives and we can't gain ground if we can't define words within the context of a conversation, right? We are inevitably going to encounter those that believe 'cis' as a prefix is not offensive. I'm looking to apply definitions that work within the global context of critical thought in an attempt to divorce sex from gender without going deep GC explanation. GC theory can be complicated for some to understand especially with blinders on (regardless of politics and/or religion or gender perspective).

ReSistingPink

Hey thanks, have at it! If you receive logical/rational replies that warrant a response I would really appreciate you letting me know the feedback and your response(s) thereto. I have some projects going and I need to be very clear but very thoughtful and respectful of all of my potential audiences in order to foster actual discourse. I'm also fully aware that no matter what I write it can be twisted to fit anyone's narrative. I tend to be snarky when I find something to be illogical and I am trying to reduce this proclivity so my words can have real impact. Thanks in advance!

The only reason your gender would be worth noting is so that the doctor can refer to you as Mr, Miss or Mrs to your face.

Out of earshot they probably call you ‘the prolapse in bed 3.’

Aw, nobody picked at my cisalpine post I thought my realization on 'cis' was a little profound if not at least a little amusing - that was total stream of thought - working it out as I typed no-edit posting (I never do that).

I did laugh when reading it after posting though.

I did laugh when reading it after posting though

Precision in language is important. I am uneasy with "cis" but haven't been able to put my finger on why

For me, it's about the word woman.

Transwoman means male woman,
Cis woman means female woman

Therefore what does woman mean?

@StopThePlanet
thanks. I will. I have tried to say the same thing, only not as precisely as you have put it.

I have said that the Latin and scientific use of 'trans' is nothing at all to do with 'transition'.
Therefore trying to use 'cis' as some opposite form of trans is just goblidigook.

I prefer your breakdown. ✊🏻💗

OP - I only knew of cis as opposed to trans because of studying Latin and Classics and coming across cisalpine Gaul and transalpine Gaul. Never knew about the scientific use of it.

As a chemist I do use cis and trans. They mean two different configurations of constituents on a double bond - exactly the same bits but differently and (usually) non-interconvertible. They are different chemical species which have different properties.

Saying they have periods does not mean they do. And again, if a medical practitioner does not know that they should lose their license to practice.

Which is why it worries me that some doctor will say that transwomen are women. They simply cannot really believe it but they will swear blind they do.

‘Woman’ suits me fine
‘A fucking real woman’ may also work if in comparison to a person who doesn’t have the biology yet insisted that they are ‘woman’.

Zutt

ReSistingPink much obliged

Weeping Ha! Latin (took it to destroy my debate opponents in competitions) is how I became acquainted with the terms as well.

Errol I took chemistry in high school and college - loved it! But a chemist I am not so I defer to your knowledge (I especially enjoy your science-laden posts, I always learn something; thanks for that). And btw, your chemistry take on the terms is short and clear - may I use it with credit to you? I won't try to expand on it but I may use it as a lead-in to direct people to an expert like you for further science-style term breakdown.

Do not let this “cis is from Latin, you can’t be offended!” shit pass.

I have dark skin and was called “Negro” (among other things) as a child. Negro is from Latin too.

“Cis” is dehumanising - it masses 7.3 billion people (many desperately poor) into an amorphous group with “privilege” over a tiny number of mostly white, middle class people in rich countries.

The sole function of “cis” is to centre the trans community as oppressed, so that their views must override those of the other 7.3 billion people when there is any conflict.

I did not accept Negro and I will never accept cis.

Cis is an ideologically loaded term thats unnecessary. They have to claim that most female people 'feel like' women rather than ARE women, else their whole house of cards falls down. But I have yet to speak to any actual woman who 'feels like a woman'. The question usually confuses people for a bit tbh, then they say no, I just AM one, I feel like...me. Cis also assumes you identify with femine stereotypes. I saw someone described as a 'gender non conforming' cis woman the other day..if they are 'non conforming' how can they be 'cis' too? Baffles me sometimes, but anyone asking was a bigot so..business as usual

I have seen references to 'women and cis women' in some articles which to me highlights the agenda behind the insistence we accept the label of cis.

They do it deliberately to troll women, but yes it demonstrates the mindset.

You have to believe that 'gender' is a thing before employing the cis/trans label. If you find the concept of gender offensive, ridiculous, meaningless or dangerous than it makes you recoil.

Transwoman - unable to use the facilities, services and spaces that suit her self i'd gender because the law recognises sex-based provision. Requires law and policy changes to get rid of the concept of 'sex', and establish rights based on 'gender'.

Ciswoman - privileged in being able to use the facilties, services and spaces that are appropriate to her sex. Needs to recognise how her privileges directly discriminate against, marginalise and oppress transwomen.

Transwoman - one word - a man presenting as a woman

Trans Woman - two words
(used by trans sympathisers) to emphasise that TWAW.
It's a description of a woman in the same way that we talk about black, disabled, professional, homeless, or prostituted women

So no more plain ole ‘women’ then? Someone had better alert the OED.