Government must make LGBT+ relationships classes compulsory in all schools, teachers say

[NeurotrashWarrior]

Passed at NEU conference.

I do agree that LGB should be included as part of relationship classes.

I think it becomes very confusing if the T is included.

I can see children querying if a trans person who is attracted to members of their own sex is 'gay' or 'straight' and also then this confusing matters in consent lessons.

A generation of young people could be gaslit and coerced. I believe you are attracted to who you are attracted to and boxes don't matter and that's absolutely fine between consenting adults, but it's the very nature of consent and homosexuality that lesbians are free to be attracted to adult human females.

Learning about same sex relationships in an age appropriate way from a young age may actually support children who start to query their sex due to not understanding same sex relationships. The T is the issue.

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/lgbt-relationships-classes-lessons-teachers-parents-protests-a8872176.html

One of these things is not like the others...

Trans is becoming like spam in that Monty Python sketch:

Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and trans; egg bacon and trans; egg bacon sausage and trans; trans bacon sausage and trans; trans egg trans trans bacon and trans; trans sausage trans trans bacon trans tomato and trans; trans trans trans egg and trans; trans trans trans trans trans trans baked beans trans trans trans...

Trans trans trans trans! Trans trans trans trans! Lovely trans! Lovely trans!

I am perfectly happy for the LGB to be taught in schools (in an age appropriate way).

I am very wary of how the T will be taught. As it is very likely to be portrayed in a way that is homophobic, reinforces gender stereotypes and defies science.

I am very wary of how the T will be taught. As it is very likely to be portrayed in a way that is homophobic, reinforces gender stereotypes and defies science.

Is there any other way to teach it? Since trans ideology is homophobic, reinforces gender stereotypes and defies science.

Like PPs I'm totally on board with relationships being taught (gay or straight) and I agree and encourage the teaching of being fair and respectful, tolerant etc but I'm definitely not OK with my child being taught that you can change biological sex. The language on this will need to be very specific, age-appropriate and in no way influenced by the trans lobby.

DS starts school next year, when changes to the curriculum are expected, and if I get one whiff of Mermaids or Stonewall anywhere near this I'm pulling him from lessons and will have to seriously consider homeschooling.

I will not have my child taught lies.

Same. I think this is where the fear lies, with the T.

I do not want my children being taught humans can change sex.

I do want them taught that they do not have to conform to gender stereotypes.

No one bats an eyelid at LGB.

Totally agree with other posts. I am happy for LGB to be taught, but not T. Sexuality is very different from gender identity. Teaching T ultimately confuses biological sex and the role of each sex in making babies. I agree T is not inclusive it is homophobic.

What practical steps can we take to counter this? Interesting how the article says that other things are not compulsory but inclusivity is being made compulsory?

To OldCrone I agree but I wonder if it can be taught in a vague sense as a belief system?

I'm not religious and I wouldn't have my child taught a religion as fact but I wonder if it can be "sometimes a man can believe he is a woman. He cannot change his body but it's what he thinks in his head. You can think he is wrong and that's ok. You can always think something different."

I can't really make this work for really young children, and for older children it would encourage them to ask questions which is good, but I worry that it would undermine the teachers and make the kids too confused.

I think the problem is that no one really understands this. No one, not even TRAs, has a coherent consistent definition of what gender and gender identity are. If there was a proper understanding of it and teachers could confidently teach it that'd be one thing, but kids are going to ask questions that teachers don't know the answers to and everyone is going to end up confused and stressed. Or it'll be taught in an over simplified way that misrepresents the reality.

Female in terms of practical steps we all need to watch out for the consultation - it just be due soon. I'm relying on it coming through MN as that's how I found out about the GRA and got me into all this in the first place!

If the parent backlash is strong enough the Ministry if Education will have to reconsider, they won't want a nationwide reaction like the one in Birmingham. I also think we can do a petition nearer the time.

Then we can ask the Headteachers how they will handle this in the lesson plans as the MoE will dump this on them and they will have to figure out how to apply it on practical terms, so we can lobby them. DS isn't even in school yet and I'm getting my arguments together!

Being discussed on LBC live now - Caroline Farrow due soon.

I wonder if it can be taught in a vague sense as a belief system?

I think this is the only way it can be taught, because that's what it is. A belief that a person's brain (or soul) has a gender which might not 'match' the sex of their body.

Any teaching of gender ideology as fact would conflict with science - people can't change sex. And the idea that we all have a gender identity is a belief, because many of us don't.

No one, not even TRAs, has a coherent consistent definition of what gender and gender identity are.

This is a huge part of the problem. Here's a definition of gender identity from a report commissioned by the Welsh Government about sex and relationships education in Wales.

‘Gender identity’ is used in this report to refer to a person’s inner sense of self. Gender identity does not necessarily relate to the sex a person is assigned at birth. Feelings about gender identity start early, around the age of 2-3.

www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/1030606/informing-the-future-of-the-sex-and-relationships-education-curriculum-in-wales-web.pdf

There's so much wrong with that, I don't know where to start. And even then, it fails to actually define the term in a way that someone who had never come across it would understand what it means.

I filled out the Welsh RSE consultation and boy did I have a lot to say on this. They had a signposting appendix that included Stonewall and Mermaids. 500 words per answer was not enough.

Labour have said they'll scrap SATs.

Labour have also said they'll bring in self id and get rid of the "out dated term" transexual.

One transexual I know of is not happy - "who asked us?"

There is going to be a lot of confusion when teachers attempt to reason why a male who wishes to keep his penis but be considered a woman is a lesbian for teens.

I absolutely agree that tolerance, respect must be an absolute and the fact that to fully transition you currently will need to be out of school potentially means that discussion is theoretical (though it seems there must be children in the uk medically transitioning earlier?) however I cannot see teachers agreeing on correct ways to talk about this to students between themselves given the amount of divided attitudes in society.

They'll default to stonewall.

I have to sleep now but I do wonder what is being discussed on the TES forums on this.

Sorry for multiple posts; mn playing up!!

Relationships are not just about lesbians, gays or bisexuals ... why are relationships being presented in schools as an issue within that context?

Wow OldCrone that report from Wales, two minutes reading and I found a handful of issues already. Can this be where we are headed, seriously?!

It's all transphobic this and homophobic that but what about the age-old misogyny?

Talking about intersex kids - well what are the numbers of intersex kids in the UK who are not being taught about people who are similar to them?

FFS

Is there any chance, that young people can go to school to learn about the basics - English, Maths, Science, Geography, History etc. without being bombarded by all this other stuff?

Go to school to learn? Wash out your mouth!

Is there any chance, that young people can go to school to learn about the basics - English, Maths, Science, Geography, History etc. without being bombarded by all this other stuff?

That would be my question too.

www.tes.com/news/teachers-vote-compulsory-lgbt-lessons-ks1-upwards

If I have time later I may see what is being said on tes. They did have some issues with discussion of all this and GC voices were being shut down at one point.

From article:

*"Silence about LGBT+ people is the wrong approach, and fuels homophobic bullying, inequality for LGBT+ workers and hate crime.

"Schools need to be confident that they're right to make sure their relationships and sex education is inclusive of all families and relationships, including LGBT+ people, in an age-appropriate way.

"RSE is just one area of the school curriculum in which the experiences of LGBT+ students need to be appropriately included if we want to break the cycles of discrimination."*

Fully agree. RSE has been in desperate need of an update for far too long. Much of the curriculum is going to cover consent and respect and homophobia is still a huge issue.

From what I've read of the draft guidelines it is mostly the above and the EA was quoted a lot (I suspect the no outsiders programme will be used by schools given the amount of attention its had.)

Unfortunately I feel the government will rely on outside agencies to clarify the finer points and this is where there could be issues regarding T within LGB. They mention that other charities will be consulted and mention Stonewall.

If labour get in it is going to become that your gender identity is a protected characteristic.

I think the problem is that no one really understands this. No one, not even TRAs, has a coherent consistent definition of what gender and gender identity are. If there was a proper understanding of it and teachers could confidently teach it that'd be one thing, but kids are going to ask questions that teachers don't know the answers to and everyone is going to end up confused and stressed. Or it'll be taught in an over simplified way that misrepresents the reality.

This. As a very experienced educator and school leader, I would have serious concerns about how this might be done, not the least that putting it into the hands of staff (which most staff wouldn't want, in any case) would result in some extremely difficult and dodgy conversations.

SO - what will happen in almost all schools is that they'll buy in packages and/or 'specialists' to do this.

And guess which organisations will be providing such packages/'specialists'?