Womanface n comedy

[JellySlice]

Why do some cross-dressing comedians offend me, but others don't?

On the not offensive side, for example, Dame Edna Everedge, and Bracket & Hinge.

On the teeth-gratingly irritating side, for example, Mrs Brown and most pantomime Dames.

I was going to write an intelligent answer but I think possibly it's just because Mrs Brown as a character is crude and unpleasant, whereas Edna Everage is sharp, witty and over the top without being made hideous/ugly.

I dislike them all, but liked League of Gentlemen but the "women" there weren't supposed to be realistic and the male characters were as batty as the "female" ones so it wasn't just womanface because women are so much more hilarious and silly than men.

I think that only you can answer the question why some comedians annoy you and others don’t rather than a load of people who have never met you.

In general not keen but agree some are less awful than others

Probs when the woman is a whole person with a personality etc and the laughs aren't simply based around
how funny a man dressed as a woman
doing stereotypical "woman" things wow fuck women are so stupid when it's pointed out!

I grew up in 70s/80s and men dressed as women for laughs was pretty much a constant. I was never keen tbh

Dick Emory - no
Les Dawson - yes

That sort of distinction?

Dick Emory - no
Les Dawson - yes

Did you mean Emory doesn't offend you but Dawson does? Or that Dawson's working class housewives were a whole person.

Dawson's housewives seemed as if they were based on real people , not just caricatures.

I agree Dame Edna and Hinge and Brackett are clever and funny. Mrs. Brown isn't.

Yes, maybe that's it - the womanface character being a complete character and funny in herself, rather than just an invitation to laugh at a shallow caricature.

I suppose, also, that people like Barry Humphries and Les Dawson are talented and intelligent comedians, whatever 'face' they put on.

I feel the same OP - some I like some I don't however I'm certainly much more critical of it than I used to be that's for sure.

Always loved Les Dawson, Dame Edna, Alastair Sim in The St.Trinian's films and Lily Savage.

maybe it's to do with whether the comedian actually likes women or not

and it comes out in whether they do the characterer with affection or spite / disdain

I think we can often tell deep down and it comes out as a feeling of discomfort, which is the best way I can describe my reaction to most "men dressed as women" stuff when I was growing up
i also always felt uncomfortble with things where women were v sexualised / presented as sex objects and nothing more which there was also plenty of in those days, I was way too young to have lots of feminist explanaitions, i just knew that it made me feel uncomfy in a way that happy cheerful nudity / sexual content wheer men and women were treated the same didn't

I used to adore Lily Savage

"I never realised that when I met Mr Right his first name would be Always..."

are you being invited to laugh with them or at them type of thing

having a man dressing up as a woman and inviting people to laugh at him is not great is it

the men in my family found that sort of stuff way funnier than the women iirc

Some are really just taking the piss out of women.
I occasionally watch Ru Paul's drag race with my friends and a lot of the performers clearly love and respect women, but don't think they actually are women.
Every now and again there is someone on there who clearly hates women and is clearly taking the piss.

I love Cissy and Ada. You can tell it's done with affection.

Miranda Yardley told me that Les Dawson was a huge fan of Trollope, which makes so much sense of Cissy and Ada, I think. You can see the observation and the detail and that the humour is for sharing, not for mocking.

Cissie and Ada are fabulous.

I think I read somewhere that their silent mouthing came from observing the mill workers trying to communicate over the deafening din in their workplace - as you say Lang there's affectionate observation going on in their comedy.

I have never read Trollope so will need to take MY's word on that..!

I remember women in my childhood doing the exaggerated mouthing thing when they were mentioning something unmentionable.

Les Dawson was a huge fan of Trollope...

Perhaps missing an indefinite article?

But David Walliams? I am conflicted. Like "I'm A Lady," but Tingtang from Thailand is quite a bit ever so racist.

I feel like I probably should be offended by Ja'mie from Summer Heights High but Chris Lilley is a genius.

Crikey Lass did you really have to ask?

I think some are comic actors acting a character which happens to be a woman. like Caroline aherne's charactr.
Others are men dressing as women for laughs.

David Walliams? I am conflicted. Like "I'm A Lady," but Tingtang from Thailand is quite a bit ever so racist.

I couldn't stand the old lady who wet herself character he did. I worked with alot of old people at the time and knew how upsetting incontinence was and maybe I'm just sensitive but it seemed wrong. I always had the feeling David Walliams doesn't like women much anyway.

“I’m a lady” isn’t making fun of women. It’s making fun of transitioners.

AnyOldPrion I didn't mean that sketch.

Ah, okay. He did more than one? Seems to have quite a fascination for dressing up as women then... and as someone else said upthread, I don’t get the impression he likes them much.

What about Kenny Everett? All done in the best paaaasible taste?

Apologies, it was you who said you felt he didn’t like women. Must learn to check before posting.

The mouthing words is called ‘Me-mo ing ‘. We were told as children “and you can stop me-mo ing at me, I can still tell what you’re saying!”
It did originate in the mills so the workers could still communicate.

Intention is everything for me with drag. To poke fun at women (Walliams, Mrs Brown etc) is not ok or remotely amusing, done with affection and a keen ear for dialogue (Lily Savage, some Python, Les Dawson) then it’s ok.