Womanface n comedy

[JellySlice]

Why do some cross-dressing comedians offend me, but others don't?

On the not offensive side, for example, Dame Edna Everedge, and Bracket & Hinge.

On the teeth-gratingly irritating side, for example, Mrs Brown and most pantomime Dames.

Growing up in the 80s I hated Dame Edna Everage joking on a chatshow about how fortunate "she" was that "her" gynaecologist had Parkinsons disease and now had a wobbly hand. I was in my early teens and found it so disturbing because I already knew of girls having creepy experiences with doctors, teachers, men in authority.

And Kenny Everitt's "Cupid Stunt" - ugh.

I can't stand any of them really.

@AnyOldPrion no need to apologise I often miss who said what.

The sketch I was talking about was taking the mic out of women with incontinence problems. My dd liked his books and I always found them quite nasty about most women. Especially those of a lower class.

I just laughed at the Dame Edna Everage joke.

Glad this is being discussed.

As usual my way of thinking about something like this is to ask "how does it look in reverse?"

Women dressing up as men for laughs is a very rare thing in comparison. Fingers of one hand job.

Apparently a bloke in a frock with some lippy and a wig is hilarious. Whereas a woman in trousers is just a woman in trousers. Amirite?

Thinking about this,I don't think I quite see either Edna Everage or Hinge and Bracket as women.They are clever and funny but none of it seems to depend on the fact that they are "women",that seems incidental almost,although of course Edna at least wouldn't work as a man.It's not as if they are a take off of a particular stereotype of womanhood.Or the Two Ronnies "female" characters.
But I think Kenny Everett is funny too,and Dick Emery - the same applies ,those characters aren't funny because they are playing into a vein of "ooh,yes,that's exactly what women are like,snigger snigger".They are in a set of their own.
I can't be dispassionate about David Walliams though,I think his humour is often cruel and "bitty" is my most hated "comedy" sketch ever.

Women dressing up as men for laughs is a very rare thing in comparison.

I must admit I did used to find the French and Saunders old men characters very funny

PickleMe - Caroline Aherne is a woman. (?)

Caroline Aherne is an ex-woman. Bereft of Life, she rests in peace.

Sorry I realised she died.

With regards to Barry Humphries, I think it’s appalling his name has been dropped from the award at the Melbourne Comedy Festival because of his comments. Apparently one of the finalists is a a trans woman called Cassie Workman. The finalists were asked to select their best joke. This is Cassie’s:

Genitals are like Mexican food. We all have the same thing, it’s just folded differently.

[tumbleweed]

I never liked Dame Edna for that sort of joke. It was a very Male perception of what a woman might think.

I never watched Dame Edna as my grandad couldn't stand the guy who played her (sorry dont know his name). He worked with him a few times and said he was awful.

Did Cissie & Ada (Dawson & Barraclough) and Hinge &Brackett work so well because there were two of them? Because much of the humour was in the relationship between them?

I don't like "Mrs Brown's Boys" because it seem so like a 1970s sitcom to me, plus its a bit reminiscent of "Bread", which I never found funny either.

I do like Lily Savage and Edna Everage, the humour is sharp and well-observed. I've never felt either comedian was poking fun at women.

And one maybe only recognisable to the Scots amongst up - Stanley Baxter. He would play a variety of characters, male and female, in his shows. A gentler humour than Lily or Edna, but again done with affection for women.

@Charley50 she was a woman, but her characters were complete personalities. Not at all the same as putting on a wig to be funny.

It's always going to be a man's perception of a woman. Just like Victoria Wood's manface character is a woman's perception of a man. Not every woman or every man.

Did Cissie & Ada (Dawson & Barraclough) and Hinge &Brackett work so well because there were two of them? Because much of the humour was in the relationship between them?

I think you may well be onto something there WhereYou..

I don't find Mrs Brown remotely funny but it's the whole show I dislike, not Mrs Brown alone. As a pp said, it's like something from the 70s.

FWIW, I don't think Brendan O'Carroll (the Mrs Brown actor) hates women at all. The Agnes Brown character is loosely based on Moore St traders (usually formidable women who were traditional matriarchs of their families). The character existed in books for years and even had a previous incarnation in a film where she was played by Angelica Huston. O'Carroll often talks in interview about the debt he owes to strong women in his life - for instance, his mother was a TD in the 1950s when there were hardly any women in the Dáil.

I still don't find Mrs Brown funny - the comedy is cringeworthy - but I don't think the lead character comes from a place of hostility towards women.

Often I wonder what the cross-dressing brings to the character.

Sometimes it's clear that the actor is part of the performance, as in Barry H's Dame Edna, or Victoria Wood's grumpy old man. Or Rupert Everet's double act in St Trinian's.

Sometimes it's merely the cross-dressing and consequent grotesquery, as in pantomime dames.

But sometimes I really don't see the point in the character being played by the other sex. Mrs Brown being a perfect example.

Apparently a bloke in a frock with some lippy and a wig is hilarious. Whereas a woman in trousers is just a woman in trousers. Amirite?

A woman in a suit just looks like a woman in a suit, whereas a strapping man in a party dress is slightly grotesque with his broad shoulders, stubble and big hands and feet, and clashes with the idea that women are supposed to be dainty and pretty. I think this is partly why it’s perceived as funny.

I think part of the problem is that comedy is only acceptable if you are “punching up” rather than “punching down”.
In other words, it’s offensive when a straight white male is taking the piss out of women, racial minorities, gays or the disabled, but not when women take the piss out of men.
This is why I find male comedians dressed as women offensive- it’s no different to putting on black face and mocking people of colour.
My favourite male comedians are ones who take the piss out of themselves, or society’s ( largely male) institutions.