Transgender rights in Ireland -- what's going on?

[Lamaha]

This is reposted from another thread, quoting @Nobodysblackerthanme:

spunout.ie/life/article/recommendations-gender-recognition-act

"The report also recommended that a legal process be put in place for cases where there is not consent from both parents or it is not possible or safe to get consent."

@Nobody said: "Ireland likes to think itself as being ahead of the curve in whatever is trending (smoking ban, plastic bag tax) . I think this is just another example."

I have to say, I haven't noticed any of this, I didn't even know the law had changed in favour of TRA's. If anything, in practical terms, in daily life, it all seems pretty old-school where I live. I haven't come across any mixed sex loos, not even in Dublin.

Are Ireland's TRAs just not as aggressive as elsewhere? Is it sneakily creeping in? What is really going on? How did this happen?
If they start teaching it in school I'll be going ballistic!

I thought that prisons were segregated by sex in Ireland and an exception to the gender recognition act

Prisons are not mentioned in the gender recognition act (revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/2015/act/25/revised/en/html#SEC2) and the then minister for justice said placement was based on legal identity rather than biological sex

The Irish minister for justice said (in answer to a parliamentary question) that a prisoner is committed based on their legal identity, but also that:

I am further advised by the Irish Prison Service that on arrival in prison, all prisoners are brought to the reception/committal unit of the prison, where there is an opportunity to provide personal and physical details as part of the committal interview process. The assessment of the prisoner’s needs, may require the Prison Governor to consider the biological gender, legal gender, gender identity, transgender, gender expression, sexual orientation or gender recognition legislation. In such cases the Governor may make a recommendation on the appropriate placement within the prison system, taking into consideration good order, security & operational issues, protection issues, available accommodation and the healthcare needs of the prisoner.

I read that as no automatic right for a transwoman to be sent to a women's prison, particularly as it explicitly mentions "biological gender" (ffs... why can't they say sex?). It's such a wide range of factors to consider that it gives a very large amount of leeway. I'm not surprised that deadringer's prison officer friend says that transwomen are housed in a separate area in the men's prison.

That said, there's a more detailed policy promised any year now, so we'll have to wait and see what that might change.

Maybe we're not that woke in Ireland after all www.thejournal.ie/drag-storytelling-4592228-Apr2019/

Glitter Hole isn't a suitable name for a children's entertainment group!

And have you seen their logo? Fucking hell, how can anyone argue it's appropriate for that group to run a children's event??
m.facebook.com/glitterholedublin/photos/a.1645127625789756/1645127629123089/?type=3

Fucking hell... Of course that was in Dunlaoghaire rathdown.

The Irish Girl Guides have been got at by TENI too. I'm a brownie leader and mentioned it in passing to some fellow leaders who were shocked. I'm planning to start a drip campaign with a few locally and possibly make a plan to challenge their "education".

I'm a big fan of the Educate Together movement but heard a story of one of the new secondary schools being excessively supportive of young teens (a second year kid in particular) who was merely exploring their own identity. My dc won't be going to their natural feeder school as it's always been woke as fuck...amazing for accepting gender non conformers in the 1990s but lots of trans positive vibes now.

The FB messages about the cancellation are all about homophobia and Dun Laoghaire being so backward. In fact, it's the mindless wokeness that got them in the mess to begin with.

Good luck to Glitter Hole - they can busy themselves with their next "Fianna Fellatio Party" event and stay away from the pre-teen kids, it's hardly that much to ask is it?

Check out the comments below the article. There are plenty of people willing to be carefully and studiously ignorant of what's right in front of their noses.

Woke idiots conflating a desire not to expose kids to a sexualised performance by a collective named after a man's anus with intolerance and homophobia. It's pretty insulting to gay people as well, to think this is so representative of them that opposition must be homophobia

And there's this:
gcn.ie/this-secure-meeting-simon-harris-following-sit/

Someone mentioned not coming across unisex toilets ... at the very least there is UCD:
www.joe.ie/news/ucd-toilets-gender-neutral-617085

I was at a talk about internet safety at one of my children's secondary schools (where there is a trans student), the talk being given by an external company. The guy suggested parents not write-off the internet as a harmful force for teens ... the example he chose was of a trans teen finding support and like-minded folk on the internet. I could only think of the commentary by Pique Resistance on the hugely influential impact of social media in pushing them toward their identifying as trans.

A lot of the people I saw floating round during Repeal are now sporting backdrops of the baby blue/baby pink flag (stereotypical gendered cliches anyone?) with the by-line "Transgender People are People". AFAIK no-one questions that but I do wonder if the presumed logic of that is that by extensionTWAW?

3times there were (are still?) some in NUIG too, at the expense of people who need disabled access

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/row-over-change-of-nui-galway-disabled-toilets-to-transgender-ones-1.3205988

"Mr Ó Maoileannaigh said only a “very small percentage of students who identify as trans and non-binary” will use them but that it was important to improve accessibility for transgender students and would not be at the expense of disabled students."

This is nonsense

Anyway can and will use an "all gender" toilet > they are open to everyone not just trans ID people

And even if they were trans ID only, internal ID is invisible so it still means for everyone

it's womens facilities and faciltiies for poeple with disablities that are being opened up to all note, rarely mens (albe bodied)

Has anyone thought about questions for the local/European election candidates that are starting to show up? I've missed the couple that have trotted round so far.

Ian O'Riordan in the IT on the inclusion of Transgender women in the Boston marathon. He understands the issue and the differences between this issue and the case of athletes with disorders of sex development.
Absolutely no pushback from trolls or TRA.
Maybe they don't read the sports section
twitter.com/ianoriordan/status/1117078879175360517?s=19

Just to add...
I agree with the point upthread that we don't have the critical mass of trans people and prisoners to raise many of the issues we have seen in the UK.
And being Irish we have the habit of saying one thing and meaning another, so in the short term that will probably prevent issues like transgender women in women's prisons becoming an issue that politicians have to deal with.
But...beware the upcoming generation, who are woke beyond belief. The wider trans issue has been raised in my work setting and wider professional network multiple times in the last two months.
The only opposition I see on twitter is coming from republican/irexit/gaelgoir types. (the opposition to the DLR library drag queen story time was very crank focused. Very few rational GC voices.)

I'm have come off most social media as I just can't handle the virtue signalling. A colleague just tweeted re the dreadful Notre Dame fire - that it would be rebuilt by the funds of the evil Catholic Church blah blah blah. I'm not Catholic! But JFC now is not the time. Sorry this is a ramble.
I don't know who in the upcoming Euro elections is worth considering. Any thoughts on the Dublin/Leinster candidates?

I've recently moved to Ireland - my impression is that yes, people here very much like to think of themselves as progressive, but there's a solid underlying traditional strata under the veneer.

Not that that's a bad thing at all - everyone for example does hockey at my kids school, the boys teams aren't favoured (and don't actually exist - since they're so young it's all mixed) - BUT, the playground segregates itself more than at schools in other countries my kids have been at, and they do still do things like split up into boys and girls for things when it's unnecessary.

Day to day I have seen toilets labelled for all genders in a couple of more hipster spots, but in traditional places, no, it's still the mens and the ladies.

I like Ireland - I like this aspirational optimism they have - I just think that given some of the history here, perhaps they should have slowed down and thought through before introducing self-id - but we all know that there were quiet lobbyists pushing it through, discouraging thought, riding the coattails of all the same sex marriage etc. stuff.

Ireland has a long and harrowing history of institutionalised sex abuse of children.

That it’s safeguarding policies and culture allowed a theatre group whose USP is sexualised content to perform for children is an absolute disgrace.

Homophobic my arse, glitter hole should be made answerable for their intention to sexualise young children. It isn’t only priests that abuse children.

Well I for one am delighted that we no longer submit to men in frocks.

Have any of you been in your local library? Even the small one horse town branches? There's a couple of Yay Trans for teens in the heavily publicised Healthy Ireland collection. In with all the other uncontroversial established best-practise diet books for diabetes and workbooks for anxiety management etc.

I just think that given some of the history here, perhaps they should have slowed down and thought through before introducing self-id

I think it is precisely because of the history that there was little reflection and no discussion. This time we were going to be ahead in being lovely to the children by making it all ok for them (oh the irony!); this time we were going to lead the liberal march and show how far we'd come (like there's a tick list and this was the next task on it). Spring-cleaning all the abuse and victimisation of the past made it just too easy to head down this path, and unwittingly create a whole new arena of abuse and victimisation.

And we let boys into the Girl Guides

www.thejournal.ie/irish-girl-guides-3201958-Jan2017/

even while there's a massive sex abuse scandal unfolding in the Scouts

www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/scout-leaders-sexually-abused-children-on-hikes-in-tents-claim-victims-1.3790322?mode=amp

I cannot believe the people defending "Glitter Hole". I mean GLITTER HOLE ffs. Why do they need to be near kids at all, what's the great loss if they aren't? Homophobia is totally irrelevant; kids can get through childhood just fine without storytime from their friendly risque comedian or poledancer. I mean they're fine. Leave them the fuck alone.

I think it is precisely because of the history that there was little reflection and no discussion.

Its interesting that Malta also embraced gender self-id quickly.

I have links to ucd and they all have their preferred pronouns in their email as well as badges coming soon

Ireland has a long and harrowing history of institutionalised sex abuse of children.

But there is hopefully no equivalent of Tavistock clinic? Is there a programme for trans kids to be put into the system? I find that hard to believe. But then, I'm relatively new here.

But there is hopefully no equivalent of Tavistock clinic? Is there a programme for trans kids to be put into the system?

March 2018 Irish Examiner article

(extract)
"Eighty-three Irish children have been sent to England in the past six years to be psychologically assessed for confusion over their gender identity.

Since 2010, boys and girls from Ireland have been referred to a specialist NHS clinic in London which treats transgender children, but in the last two years, there has been a sharp increase in referrals of children feeling unhappy about their biological sex.

The children, who range from the age of eight to 17, are initially psychologically assessed in the Tavistock Clinic in the UK while treatment, which can involve puberty blockers, is mainly carried out in the Crumlin Hospital in Dublin.

The increase in Irish referrals in the past two years is attributed to the growing recognition of gender dysphoria, the distress from feeling there is a mismatch between biological sex and gender identity.

The number of children travelling for assessment outside of Ireland increased from 12 in 2015, to 33 last year.

Around one-third of the children treated in the Tavistock Clinic from all over Britain and Ireland are born as males while two-thirds are female at birth." (continues)
www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rise-in-referrals-of-children-to-uk-over-gender-identity-468876.html