Famous women challenge

[Billy02]

Hi, my dd has challenged me to find a famous Actress, Instrumentalist, Dancer, Singer, Singing Diva (has to be on the stage) who has stayed on top of her game post dc?

She is sure there is nobody and it's her argument for not having kids, she's only a teen and realistically could change her mind.

I know it's nothing to do with me but I want to inform properly, it will be up to her and her biological clock when she is older.
I have been a sahm for 30 years and have absolutely no regrets at all, but I was never going to be world class at anything, and had free choice.

So to try and get a good balance and because when we have discussions she can still talk me into a bloody corner, would love to hear any suggestions.
No presenters or tv celeb judges btw, they are all great but a different category.

Angelina whatever her surname is - several kids.

I know Op asked for women from the world of entertainment. As people have pointed out tho' in that world women have complained about the sexism they face when they get older.

In the world of politics we have had two woman Prime Ministers. Mrs May doesn't have children but Mrs thatcher did and was able to rise up to the top job nevertheless.

Why is she considering her long term fertility based on a handful of high profile female performers?

Cleo Lane
Kirsty McColl
Joan Crawford (maybe not such a great example...)
Judi Dench

I already knew as of the age of 10 that I never wanted children. Haven't changed my mind and I have no regrets.

I think people should only have children if they really want them. They are a huge sacrifice after all. Very few things impact a person's life more than having children. This is applies more to women than it does for men.

Yeah, your life doesn't end, but it will definitely never be the same. Plus, these famous actresses all have plenty of money for nannies and such. Most women won't have those resouces.

Kiera knightly
Holly Willoughby
Not a stage personality but NZ prime minister Jacinda Adern

I know Op asked for women from the world of entertainment. As people have pointed out tho' in that world women have complained about the sexism they face when they get older.

If you want some scientists, the only British woman yet to have won the Nobel prize for chemistry (Dorothy Hodgkin) was a mother at the time, and continued a very long and distinguished career.

And the only person (of either sex) ever to win two Nobel prizes for different subjects (physics and chemistry), was a mother, whose daughter was also a mother who won one (Marie and Irène Curie).

Jocelyn Bell Burnell, who many think should have won a Nobel prize for discovering pulsars, is another eminent scientist who is a mother.

No woman needs an argument for having, or not having, kids.

Structural sexism can negatively impact women whatever they decide.

Joan Crawford (maybe not such a great example...)

Proper lolling at that!

No woman needs an argument for having, or not having, kids.

This.

Men don’t do they?

Kate Winslet. Hilary Duff. Julianne Moore. Claudia Winkelman and Tess Daly from ‘entertainment’. Can’t remember if they have been mentioned already.

It’s probably easier for writers but Maya Angelou is another example.

Quite a good chance to discuss structural sexism - singers/actors etc can afford child care. Also, although Jacinda Adern has a young baby, other women politicians such as Angela Merkel, Theresa May and Nicola Sturgeon don’t have children. Jess Phillips has a supportive husband and parents and her children are now older (in double figures I think) but she points out the very unsocial hours MPs are expected to work when Parliament is in session.

Celine Byrne - amazing Irish Soprano. Not mega rich, just has a v supportive DH & extended family meaning she could continue her amazing career post DC

Gal Gadot was pregnant while filming Wonder Woman.

A few tv actresses - Jane Leeves (? From frasier), Julia Lewis Dreyfus...

Ooh sorry Billy02 missed the bit about TV presenting. I suppose Louise Redknapp is a rare example of someone who has re-established her career.

Florence Welch and PJ Harvey are 2 successful artists who have not yet had children but are great role models for thoughtful approaches to deciding when, if, how to combine motherhood and music.

Oh thank you for these marvellous inspiring women, next time she brings it up which will no doubt be soon, I'm well armed.
Also many thanks for the other considerations, especially about ageism, and those who are working out to have children at the right time in their career.

These are never really heavy conversations just in passing, but as I said it's good to give a balanced picture.
It will be interesting to see when she gets older if she is still as adamant. It really wouldn't surprise me.

Some of her idols have been mentioned which was really helpful

Pushing someone into doing something they have said they don't want to do is very different from "having a discussion." Futhermore, what possible discussion can you have about the choices a woman makes regarding her own body

As a mother I agree with all catskippys posts.

Youre calling it a discussion op but the fact that you are looking for proof to convince a teenager about future children shows you have an agenda.

She's a child if she desperately wants children one day she will have them regardless of career prospects that's how these things work. But we don't need to push this agenda on young women. You can be very happy childless if thats what you want and it should be respected. I think this is really weird tbh. There is already so much pressure on women and the fucking truth us that children do tend to fuck up careers, particularly of women.

Lauren Bacall.
Her most famous films were made before she had children but she had a long career, carrying on long after her first husband Humphrey Bogart died.

guyliner

So, you'd let your dd continue believing that she couldn't reach the level she wanted to and have children, or would you open the discussion when she talks about it.
Perhaps I should shut her up entirely and ignore her comments?
Of course I have an agenda, it's called education. Don't mothers engage in discussion with their daughters?

Billy02 no offense, but your agenda seems to be more about having grandchildren then it is about respecting your daughter's choices or her education.

It doesn't even matter what her reasons are. It is her life and her body and her career. She doesn't owe anyone, including you, any reasons or explanations for the choices she makes.

Of course I have an agenda, it's called education. Don't mothers engage in discussion with their daughters?

I'm someone who has a reasonably successful career (although I'm not as you seem to think is needed to make it worthwhile maintain a career "world class at anything") I took 3 months maternity leave and returned to work full time. However your point/ agenda/ whatever escapes me.

I have said on several of my posts I'm puzzled (maybe I'm just thick) what this discussion is about.

If your daughter says she doesn't want children that is no business of yours. At any age.

If she wants advice on combining a career and children (advice which you can't give her from the point of view of practical experience ) what on earth is the point of showing her a random selection of extraordinary women who did this successfully? How does that count as "education"?

I mentioned Marin Alsop- it isn't having children which prevents the vast majority of women (or men for that matter) reaching her heights- it's not having the talent.

Do you and your daughter not know any solicitors, barristers, accountants, surveyors, doctors, dentists, vets etc, etc, etc who are mothers?

In fact if anything your so- called "education" may well be nothing of the sort. Apart from JK Rowling most of the examples given are women who were rich, successful and famous before they had children. In other words women who had the money to employ staff and the power to dictate terms.

As examples in the "real world" (hate that expression but for the moment it will do) they aren't terribly helpful to assist in a return to work post birth.

Do you and your daughter not know any solicitors, barristers, accountants, surveyors, doctors, dentists, vets etc, etc, etc who are mothers?

Not personally, no, and is so far removed from what she is looking at.

I already have a gc and I know they are planning more, then there's another one likely to have a child within the next couple of years. Certainly no gc issues.

I'd like to thank those who understood why I was posting and for those who don't thank you for your suggestions.

Finally, as I said upthread it's none of my business, of course it isn't, she'll make her own decisions when older, however, whilst still a child I'd like to be certain that I have educated her well and at least she isn't ill informed.

Not mentioned yet? Simone Dinnerstein ...

She famously recorded JS Bach's Goldberg Variations when pregnant with her first child; it became a top-selling record; she continues to record and tour, performing world-wide; she is a mother.

Lots of mothers achieve highly in performance; more and more as time passes. Tell your daughter, OP, that she can excel both as a mother and in whatever is her chosen field -- artistic endeavour, STEM, ... all and any of the worthwhile things human beings can do, mothers are getting to be there at the forefront of achievement.

More than that, tell your daughter that even if she does not excel, the effort she puts in to her choice of life path will make her a happier and more fulfilled human being ... whether her choice is to be a SAHM or anything else combined with motherhood.

There are undeniable difficulties -- sexism is still rife worldwide. But these difficulties are not insuperable, and overcoming them is hugely valuable personally as well as good for the rest of us ordinary mortals.

My big sis - 3 kids and a company director.

Does victoria beckham count?

I like your daughters attitute and your response tbh. Hope my daughter is giving me these kinds of challenges.

I would try to bring some critical thinking in, ask her what makes her assume that she can't have children and a successful career. Men do it without question, don't they?

Make her prove her point as well. What does she mean by a successful career?

Look people up on Wikipedia. For example, chief medical officer for scotland is a woman and has 3 children.

But also look at men, highlight the fickle nature of music/film industry. Having children makes little difference if the fans just loose interest/grow up