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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Pink nail varnish for boys

69 replies

HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 13/04/2019 09:19

I've just had a very weird encounter with my DH, our DS is nearly 3 and is into anything and always loves to copy his older sister. His sister wanted her nails painted and he then wanted his done as always. DH never has a problem with this usually, but he said 'no'.

I obviously told him not to be ridiculous but he went onto explain that he doesn't want to encourage that behaviour as someone will want to chop his cock off as he'll be seen as trans. I wanted to tell him that was ludicrous but it did make me think twice. That's not good is it? That I'm encouraging gender stereotyping when I have been discouraging it all my life.

I feel disappointed in myself for even giving it a thought. Obviously I allow my kids to express themselves how they wish and will always love them no matter what but I am sad that it crossed my mind to stop him doing that.

OP posts:
ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 13/04/2019 12:06

I think some people are misunderstanding. The DH isn't saying no because he thinks toddlers/ boys painting nails is bad or makes them trans, he's just worried that other people will think that and put ideas in his sons head that will lead to him being harmed. The question isn't "is it OK for boys to paint their nails/do other "feminine" things" but "how can I show my son that its OK to do these things without making him a target for the woke-police". Right OP?

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 13/04/2019 12:08

Agree Caro, I'm not worried about my kids getting the wrong message in the home, it's the message they might get from school/ peers that concerns me!

Ribbonsonabox · 13/04/2019 12:11

Hmmm.... it's difficult because my first thought is 'you cannot turn anyone trans any more than you can turn someone gay, people just are or are not' BUT I do worry about the 8nflux of female to Male trans kids.... when I think about it it is hard to come to terms with your female body when going through puberty.... I certainly would have taken an opt out card if I thought I could... not to have to experience the unwanted attention, the pain, the fear of childbirth having to think about that when you are still really a child... I dressed in baggy mens clothing until I was about 18.... I was very confused because what I understood about adult women via the Male gaze was that they weren't really real, and I definitely was... so in my head I didnt think I was a woman I just wanted to be a human being....but I AM a woman. Women ARE in fact human beings, just from the way they are presented to you in the media it's no wonder young girls cant identify with that (although I think its slowly getting better) I've gone on to have two kids and am in a het relationship, my fear of femininity didnt last... it's just that it's hard going through puberty..... when you look at the statistics now days of female to Male trans kids it's gone up alarmingly. I do not think all these girls are men born in the wrong body... I think it has to do with misogyny and how hard it actually is to be a woman and how no one really acknowledges that.

That said I really do not think you can turn a boy trans by putting nail varnish on him. My son as a toddler loved nail varnish and I'd let him play with it, any colours he wanted... he couldn't be more stereotypically masculine now... and that is not something I've encouraged, I always made sure to buy him and give him access to both things traditionally thought of as masculine and feminine, he has dolls and a home corner in his room and fairy wings... but to be frankly honest its diggers and trains and legitimate hes really obsessed with. And even if it wasnt I do not think that expressing femininity makes someone a woman or even think they are a woman... as long as you are supportive and allow them freedom to do these things without judgement over their gender or sexuality I actually think that leads to less confusion. Personally I feel it is harder to identify with a rigid gender stereotype and so it's less likely that someone is going to think they do not align with the gender they were assigned at birth if they have never had a rigid idea enforced on them about what that is.
For me idve had a much easier time accepting myself as female if I hadn't had constant bombardment of images of what that should mean and what I should be into and the reaction I should be provoking in people etc etc

Ribbonsonabox · 13/04/2019 12:15

So my point is basically that I reckon boys are much less likely to think they are trans if you allow them freedom to Express and explore things traditionally thought of as feminine. Because they then arent going to desire these things but think that is wrong for a boy and so go down the whole road of thinking that they must not really be a boy then.

Namelessinseattle · 13/04/2019 12:21

Make sure that you only use blue polish and then if someone does say oh excuse me but your child is clearly identifying as a girl, they’re wearing polish you can say don’t worry- it’s blue.

Original poster
HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 13/04/2019 12:25

Yes that's exactly it Bygrab!!!!

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 13/04/2019 12:27

The DH isn't saying no because he thinks toddlers/ boys painting nails is bad or makes them trans, he's just worried that other people will think that and put ideas in his sons head that will lead to him being harmed.

Children will be more influenced by atitudes at home though.
Children will understand things according to their age.

The possible message becomes 'boys wearing nail varnish etc = dangerous" Many children (&adults) when told something is forbidden become more fixed on wanting it.
The most effective way of protecting children from external interpretations of their rejection of sex-based stereotypes is for children to recognise that this is what these are. No boys toys/ girls toys, boys' hair/ girls' hair, boys' hobbies / girls' hobbies etc

Original poster
HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 13/04/2019 12:29

Ribbons, I don't think you can turn anyone trans either but it's as ByGrab said the 'woke police' - people are using the fact that their male 18month old opening their baby grow as evidence of being trans, that they don't like 'boys toys' etc. and my DH is worrying that by supporting him being GNC he's going to be a target!!

OP posts:
ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 13/04/2019 12:29

I think Namelessinseattle that you have captured the insanity of this whole mess perfectly with that one sentence.

Come on society. Cop yourselves the fuck on already!

Original poster
HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 13/04/2019 12:30

Agreed RO, that's what I'm doing. I hate that this is even a consideration for my DH.

OP posts:
starzig · 13/04/2019 12:32

I think you need to address why your daughter is wearing nail varnish. This is slso gender stereotyping. Females must be pretty to look at and have pretty painted nails. What next- a little make up, some false eyelashes, debilitating heels. It's all just a girl thing isn't it?

Original poster
HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 13/04/2019 12:40

Star, she is wearing nail varnish because I am wearing nail varnish.

OP posts:
starzig · 13/04/2019 12:45

I suspected as much TBH. Most kids copy their parents and unfortunately the girls must be pretty trend is spiralling a bit out of control to the point that it is crisis if you don't get a good Instagram photo.

Original poster
HeyDuggeesCakeBadge · 13/04/2019 12:46

Don't worry, I don't have social media so no photos to put on.

OP posts:
Anothernew1 · 13/04/2019 13:00

I'm bloody awful at painting my nails but still do it every now and again.. it definitely doesnt make me look "pretty" because it is a bit of coloured paint on some dead cells however I quite like the colours! I don't see the problem with children painting their nails. Also I wear make up because I cannot stand how i look without it, not to attract anyone purely for my own self confidence (less than ideal I know!)

Carowiththegoodhair · 13/04/2019 13:25

Some women like to wear nail varnish (I use it for distracting from the overall mankiness of my feet in summer), others don’t.

It’s a matter of personal choice, not morality. Nobody should be policing what other people choose to wear.

starzig · 13/04/2019 13:47

That's a shame anothernew. You should be able to feel comfortable and confident in yourself no matter what you look like.

R0wantrees · 13/04/2019 13:52

Agreed RO, that's what I'm doing. I hate that this is even a consideration for my DH.

Maybe your DH should/could paint his nails?

With the summer coming and sandals coming out, is there a reason why he wouldn't like some colour on his toenails?

Challenging sex-based stereotypes isn't solely for women to consider.

Thelovecats85 · 13/04/2019 13:53

Nail painting is more body decorating rarther than trying to look appealing to thr opposite sex.

Well I am definitely no expert but isn't it the case that porn women have stupidly long and painted nails?

Your confusing nail art with extentions.
Nails can but short and pretty with nice designs without being vampy sexy nails.

Pink nail varnish for boys
Pink nail varnish for boys
Ribbonsonabox · 13/04/2019 13:54

Excuse me starzig but what is actually wrong with wanting to be pretty or have fun with your image? Surely the problem is not that in itself but the fact in the past there was no freedom of choice for women, they HAD to look a certain way or face censure. Another problem is that having fun with image and looking 'pretty' are thought of a silly frivolous things BECAUSE they are associated with women and as such are thought of as a bit of a joke when men are interested in those things...
Surely it's important to allow people regardless of gender, to express themselves however they want? Theres nothing inherently silly about liking pretty things just as theres nothing inherently intelligent or noble about not caring about the way things look.... I personally think it holds women back more if you feed into the idea that liking nail varnish or wearing false lashes makes you not worthy of respect or some kind of foolish idiot... we shouldnt all have to act traditionally masculine in order to be worthy of respect. There is nothing wrong with wearing nail varnish.

MsMcWibble · 13/04/2019 14:34

I think that this from 4th wave now is relevant.
9 year old girl - happy being a girl, but parents think she 'looks like a boy' now the parent are questioning her 'gender' and want her to talk to a therapist.
Obviously the parents aren't doing that in this case, but it shows how some children are being pushed down this route.
twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1116776048182607872

LassOfFyvie · 13/04/2019 14:35

Theres nothing inherently silly about liking pretty things just as theres nothing inherently intelligent or noble about not caring about the way things look....

Here, here. Deriding or sneering at anything pretty or feminine or jumping to the conclusion that it's porn related or only done to catch a man is just as bad as insisting women should be feminine.

HorsewithnoFrills · 13/04/2019 15:18

Here, here. Deriding or sneering at anything pretty or feminine or jumping to the conclusion that it's porn related or only done to catch a man is just as bad as insisting women should be feminine.

Are you alluding to me?

If so please don't put words into my mouth; I didn't say any of that.

For starters my comment was about excessive femininity, you know, the kind that's debilitating - can't run for a bus, unable to go out in the rain because hair! Just daft in my opinion. You do know the difference between expressing and opinion and being dictatorial? Maybe not.

On the subject of the porn allusion - here's another opinion which you don't have to agree with:

I believe that we are living in what some people call "porn culture" and I don't like it. It starts a lot sooner than you'd like to think - does anyone remember those baby shoes with heels for God's sake? And how long before they start selling pole-dancing sets for little girls?

Perhaps your comments were not directed at me or anything I've said in which case ignore this post.

LassOfFyvie · 13/04/2019 16:05

On the subject of the porn allusion - here's another opinion which you don't have to agree with

The leap from a toddler colouring their nails to porn was bizarre. I don't really know what was going on in your head (or that poster's head as there are 2 "Horsewithno...posters)

One of them thinks Would it be fucking brilliant if things evolved to the point that in the future the only people that perform femininity were men.

Brilliant for whom ? You ? Fine. I'd hate It- especially if it came with the sort of censorious attitude of some posters on here.

you know, the kind that's debilitating - can't run for a bus, unable to go out in the rain because hair! Just daft in my opinion No I don't know actually. Sounds a bit made up to be honest.

As to what might be "excessive femininity" - or "debilitating" well who knows what that might mean. One of the"Horsewithno.." posters thinks wearing perfume is done with the motive of attracting men so the bar of what might be excessive or debilitating might be set quite low.

I wasn't only alluding to you - starzig' s comments are in the same vein.

Thelovecats85 · 13/04/2019 16:25

I think some posters have a bit of a skewed view on feminine/girly things.

You can care about having nice hair and still not worry about going out in the rain. You can have nice manicured painted nails without having tallons that prohibit you from using your hands. You can wear perfume and make up just to feel good about yourself, it's not just to attract a man or look like a porn star. Women did all these things before porn became mainstream.

We should all be free to express ourselves as we please and it should have no baring on gender, sex, political opinions or agendas.

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