Possible Jordan Peterson webchat on MN

[GeordieGenes]

If you go over to site stuff, MN are asking posters if they would like a webchat with Jordan Peterson! The thread is pretty negative, but I think it would be great to ask him about gender critical issues. He's one of the only Canadian voices we have!

If you think this would be good, please go and say so on the thread!

I'm wondering what the solution to male aggression is. Or are we suggesting that the delight of having men's company is worth all the women and children that they (as a class) kill, injure and sexually assault?

FFS I am not being elitist, or 'bowing down' I'm pointing out that you simply don't get to be a professor in clinical psychology by being not very smart.

I'd just love to know how smart all the women on here are (and presumably they are all VERY highly qualified in clinical psychology themselves) to feel in a position to announce that he is not as smart than he thinks he is.

will we always have male violence as long as we have men?

Undoubtedly. Men as a class; men as part of the human species - dress it up as much as you like. It doesn't matter a jot.

will we always have male violence as long as we have men?

Undoubtedly. Men as a class; men as part of the human species - dress it up as much as you like. It doesn't matter a jot.

so is the level of male violence we currently suffer from as a society inevitable? should we just accept it because humans are a violent species?

Well JPs solution is for men to take responsibility for their own actions.

I agree with him on that. He sees a lot of bitter nihilistic people behaving badly and blaming all their actions on others, and wants them to ‘clean their room’ and get responsible - to their families and their communities

I'd just love to know how smart all the women on here are (and presumably they are all VERY highly qualified in clinical psychology themselves) to feel in a position to announce that he is not as smart than he thinks he is.

Ellen you need a bit more confidence in your own judgement. Trust yourself when you recognise someone is talking shit.

JP is not at all concise. He uses far too many superfluous words and syllables. Really clever people are succinct. It doesn't matter their level of education - if they are genuinely saying something of value they will be keen to get to the point and to make it clearly.

I'm sure you would love to know all the juicy details about the diversely educated women who post here. I'm also sure that we will feel no compulsion to share those details with someone who seems to have swallowed quite a bit of MRA chum.

I don't agree with all he says but he's a good interviewee and has some interesting opinions.

I'd just love to know how smart all the women on here are

How do you personally make this assessment when you converse, ask for qualifications first? You do not need a degree, certainly you do not need to be a clinical psychologist, in order to make your own assessment about whether or not he sounds like a smart person. When people speak or write, I make my assessment and their qualifications are largely irrelevant. Their quals are relevant when they go for a job, or speak about their chosen subject, but then it just shows how learned they are. How knowledgeable. Knowledge and education does not automatically equal, a smart person.
JP once said that he believes we as a society are more wise than we are foolish. A preposterous and demonstrably false statement.

Ellen you need a bit more confidence in your own judgement. Trust yourself when you recognise someone is talking shit.

Oh I do.

Is he like your guru or something? Why are you so emotional because other people hold a different opinion of him? It’s weird

Like I said, some people definitely want to capitalise His pronouns, for they truly do believe in Him

Oh I do

If you think I am or the other posters are talking shit, how about being a bit more direct about it and explain your reasoning instead of a silly comment like that?

Why are you so emotional because other people hold a different opinion of him?

I think it's a sign of being enthralled.

Its all those random long words thrown together.

He tents his fingers when he speaks too, doesn't he? That and the reallly sllowww manner of droooning speech does add to the illusion of the clever prof in a leather wingback.

The bottom line is that Peterson sees us as mammals, so the dominance, the violence of males is what you find in apes. And it is natural and we need to accept that.

However he does see the need for humans to evolve, to combat that, because he understands some of the natural stuff is not so dandy (just killing the weaker opponent, eating your cubs, rape, uncooked food... you get the gist). Peterson is totally for transcending that.

However, if you dissect and describe the mechanisms of mammalian male dominance (call it patriarchy) that is perpetuated and further refined in our culture and if you work on transcending it, Peterson is totally against it. It would be unnatural.

Surely there’s a female psychologist with a book to plug we can talk to? I think Stella O’Malley has one out.

I suppose it’s been a while since we’ve had a man on to sort out us women and tell us what we’re like/ what motivates us/ what we should be doing whilst paying not the blindest bit of notice to what we are actually like (unique individuals)/ what actually motivates us (complex reasons)/ what we should be doing (whatever we damn well please).

The bottom line is that Peterson sees us as mammals, so the dominance, the violence of males is what you find in apes. And it is natural and we need to accept that.

Nancy Gray a professor of Women's Studies has this to say about the old 'we're the same as apes line,

'What it comes down to for me is a deep wariness of and attention to the human factor in defining animal behavior. Yes, we can observe. Yes, we can correct for possible bias in what we observe and what we conclude about it. But if Marx was right that we think only those thoughts that are thinkable in our time, then we might do well to consider how the discourses of our time shape what counts as real or meaningful, and what truths are delivered to us as a result.'

Not all apes live in male dominated societies, bonobos have a strong female hierarchy of dominance.

There are many individuals and different societies in the ape world too.

In ape groups where males are dominant and violent, there are social controls in place. One alpha male and the females will drive out young males as they reach adolescence, and they have to live on the outskirts or leave the group. They don't get to mate or breed.

If JP et al are saying we are like apes, we should be harem animals with most males living as outlying incels.
But JP also says that incels should be given a female partner to make them less violent.

But JP also says that incels should be given a female partner to make them less violent

Such a crass characterisation. Women aren’t “given” his whole thing is to encourage men to be better so maybe, just maybe women will be interested in them.

And we all know there are far too many awful men out there, so someone who encourages them to, I dunno, stop being fuckups is to be encouraged, in my view.

Hmm. Is Peterson really saying that the best way to encourage men to take personal responsibility and improve themselves is to hold out the hope of getting sex from women? How depressing.

Is Peterson really saying that the best way to encourage men to take personal responsibility and improve themselves is to hold out the hope of getting sex from women? How depressing

Not sure he’d say it’s the best, but likely a big motivator. As for depressing, yes, it makes me glad I’m a woman frankly 🤷‍♀️

But if Marx was right that we think only those thoughts that are thinkable in our time, then we might do well to consider how the discourses of our time shape what counts as real or meaningful, and what truths are delivered to us as a result.

Good quote.

JP ist quite inconsequential in his own thought edifice imo. He wants humans to prevail over their 'animalistic instincts' all the time and (rightly) considers Western civilization, rule of law... remarkable achievements - all things that aim at supplanting 'nature, the rule of the jungle'.

But Heaven forbid someone wants to tackle the hierarchy of the sexes. That would be against Nature!