Does feminism take age and experience?

[user9000]

So recently spent a few months in the company of women around the age of 20 as I was updating my education. I was really disappointed to see how many of them have bought into the importance of the size of their derrieres, wearing waist trainers at night and loads of makeup and hair accessories. (Please note I realize women can wear whatever they want, it's their right, and they were young and frivolous, etc).

When I joked that when I was their age most girls were afraid of having a big bum they laughed and said 'well these days men like big ones!' All I could think was who cares what men want? And how disappointing that corsets have made a comeback?
Is my despair an over-reaction?
I realize young men are also pressured to have chiseled abs, etc. Maybe it's just society in general now? (rant over...)

Waist trainer is just an old fashioned corset isn't it?

One imagines there's less whalebone involved, but afaik yes.

Don't make em like they used to.

It doesn't mean I'm incapable of thinking about - and I quote - 'interesting things' too.

Nobody is saying that you are incapable of anything.

But I personally find gendered talk pretty tedious - I am not that interested in people's facades or the effort they put into maintaining them. Unless they are genuinely interested and enthusiastic about something to the point it is infectious or they enrich the conversation with back stories and emotional journeys.

People as a general rule aren't interested in the things I want to talk about either, so it works both ways. I am genuinely incapable of talking about shopping etc with any sincerity. You are lucky you can stand it. It gives you a lot more friendship choices than me.

I don’t think feminism requires age and experience but it often helps. I’ve met plenty of inspirational young rad fems.

What I cannot bear however is young women who presume to lecture me about the concept of respect.

Come back to me when you’ve birthed and breastfed 5 children before giving me your ill-considered opinions on gender or hastily assembled internet philosophies and hot take on my religious beliefs. Which is almost always wrong.

I've always viewed myself as a feminist for as long as I can recall, but my feminism has changed. I'd consider myself Radical rather than liberal now, and I think that change has come from experience if I'm honest.

I'm in my 40's and have younger friends in their 20's as we're on the same uni course and they lean towards the radical side too.

Sorry for going on - but I know a lot of blokes who are not into gendered talk either - for example they have no interest in talking about football or objectifying women. Blokes who love football are lucky in that regard because it can be awkward to be one who doesn't give a shit about it - the incredulity it meets.

I am old enough to remember the day my mother was allowed to go into work wearing trousers. Yes, allowed.

Allowed by men, of course.

Feminism should embrace women wearing whatever they want to wear. Not what men want them to wear.

My mother was Head of English at a Canadian University, and was not allowed to decide what to wear to work ffs.

Princessandthepea -‘Feminism is often a response to a certain kind of father IME.’

Would you care to expand? Your use of the singular intrigues me.

Some of the posts here make me a little uncomfortable. I do believe young women can be great feminists capable of critical thinking and all that entails.

I am 30. Not really young or cool enough to fit in with the hip Instagram generation but certainly old enough to have felt the weight of the patriarchy. I am pregnant with my first and maybe my feminism will expand and develop as I experience the trials of childbirth and nurturing a child. I do, as it stands, identify with radical feminist thinking and apply it to many areas of my life.

I have felt the weight of gendered expectation. I struggled with anorexia for many years. Ignoring the major psychopathology behind the condition there are a number of reasons why the vast majority of sufferers are female. I obsessed over my appearance, the way I presented myself to the world was central to my identity to the point where it consumed every aspect of my life. I distanced myself from my feminism for a few years but re-engaged once I was able to foster a relationship with food. This was an experience that felt unique to women. I reflect on parts of those years as central to the groundwork of the development of my feminism.

I grew up with a mother and grandmother who viewed make up and dresses as a rite of passage essential to the progression of womanhood. My grandmother applied her make up as soon as she came out of theatre after having her kidney removed. She was 86.

I guess what I am trying to say is that feminism, at any age, can be influenced by the enforcing/rejection/performance of patriarchal norms. As the female body evolves in line with its biological development, feminism grows, mutates and develops.

It is not helpful to say a 20 something year old woman is less of a feminist because she wears lipstick. It would be more helpful to nurture her development, to rely less on gendered expectation as a means of communication and to recognise that her philosophy and outlook has the potential to flourish under the right conditions as her womanhood progresses.

Jeez. Sometimes I wish I was as concise and succinct as Datun et al.

Some of the posts here seem to be deliberately be misconstruing what other posters such as me are saying.

I don't really give a shiny shit if people opt to wear make up and high heels, etc.

I do object to the absolutely enormous pressure young women are under, to think they are not okay as they are, and must devote enormous amount of time and money, that could be better spent elsewhere, often doing things that are uncomfortable, painful and dangerous, to live up to these unattainable standards.

Feeling ashamed of your body and face, as you naturally are, is not feminist. Anything that makes you feel ashamed of your natural female self is not feminist.

I think it is heartbreaking - all these beautiful young women feeling they have to alter themselves to appeal to current trends.

I just don't get the hypersensitivity about deconstructing the pressure to live up to beauty standards on a feminist forum.

Feeling ashamed of your body and face, as you naturally are, is not feminist. Anything that makes you feel ashamed of your natural female self is not feminist

Why do so many feminists hate their bodies then? There is post after post on FWR along that theme. I'd never come across the level of self-loathing that appears on FWR.

Why do so many feminists hate their bodies then?

I would beg to differ. Feminists usually process the pressures to make us women hate our own femaleness, however we live in a patriarchal society, oiled by cultural misogyny and no one is immune.

I'd never come across the level of self-loathing that appears on FWR.

I call bullshit. You just pulled that out of your arse.

I call bullshit. You just pulled that out of your arse

I can give you a few quotes from the last couple of days for you to be getting on with .

I can give you a few quotes from the last couple of days for you to be getting on with .

Please supply some evidence of absence the other forums and outside of mumsnet too - for balance. We can compare, yeah?

Also. Do you believe everyone on FWR is a feminist? There's been a massive influx recently and some cheeky fucker even suggested creating a separate 'gender critical' forum to house them.

Wow! Original OP here. Didn't expect so many responses. Had to go to work in between posting and now.

I do know young women who are not shallow, who have confidence and don't wear three layers of makeup because the internet says they should.

I just was surprised to find as many as I did buying into society's weird ideas despite all the hard work for women's rights.

I don't know if I remember my own youth correctly.

It took me a long time to support feminism, maybe it's a process. That's sort of where my thoughts were going.

I am probably repeating myself!!! very tired!

Not aimed anyone in particular.....but for those having difficulty putting bold on, don't leave a space between the * and the next character at the start. Plus the 'preview message' button is a handy tool.

The app doesn't have preview, it's supposed to be WYSIWYG I think but sometimes screws up.

I was a different kind of feminist in my youth than I am now in my 40s. I was way more active in my youth, thought I was a rad.. but I also centred men. I could not be rude or challenging to a man to his face. I worried about their feelings and what they thought of me all the time.

Plus, as I was young and gorgeous.. there was no way I wanted to rock the boat of sexual politics ‘cause I enjoyed the attention.

Now, with an extra 20 years of patriarchal fuckwittery under my belt, I’ve lost interest in men’s thoughts and feelz

I am curious about whether dds will retain their interest in and understanding of equality as they move into late teens and twenties. There are some pretty powerful social behavioural cultural forces that are going to influence them, as they did me.

extra 20 years of patriarchal fuckwittery under my belt, I’ve lost interest in men’s thoughts and feelz

@WeRiseUp
People as a general rule aren't interested in the things I want to talk about either, so it works both ways. I am genuinely incapable of talking about shopping etc with any sincerity.

I'm right there with you...

As I've aged, I give fewer fucks in general and would say this has strengthened my feminism.

It's no surprise that young people - and I would include both sexes - looking for a mate wish to look decorative, in a way that seems far less important once you are in a LTR and have children.

I've identified as a feminist since my teens, but still had my shallow moments. I'm confident some of those young women will be the angry feminists of tomorrow.

I've been here for a bit now and I can't say that I've picked up on any contributors hating their bodies.

I don't hate mine.