Does feminism take age and experience?

[user9000]

So recently spent a few months in the company of women around the age of 20 as I was updating my education. I was really disappointed to see how many of them have bought into the importance of the size of their derrieres, wearing waist trainers at night and loads of makeup and hair accessories. (Please note I realize women can wear whatever they want, it's their right, and they were young and frivolous, etc).

When I joked that when I was their age most girls were afraid of having a big bum they laughed and said 'well these days men like big ones!' All I could think was who cares what men want? And how disappointing that corsets have made a comeback?
Is my despair an over-reaction?
I realize young men are also pressured to have chiseled abs, etc. Maybe it's just society in general now? (rant over...)

Women who aren't mothers haven't be radicalised by it yet. So that will mean fewer feminists from that group.

I do think pregnancy, childbirth and the postnatal period can completely remove any shred of doubt about how sexist society is (the indignity of it, the dismissal of pain and the resulting health issues we're expected to get on with, without complaining).

I think having a child will be a radicalising experience for many women. But many will be very aware of all these things before/without having a child. Either because of other experiences or because they have looked into it a lot and are good at critical analysis.

I think critical analysis does improve with age too. But some are good at it from a younger age.

I’ve been a feminist since I hit puberty in the 1960’s, bought Spare Rib magazine, the lot.
I raised my DDs as feminists from the cradle. One of them has been out actively campaigning on marches and stickering etc against the TRA invasion of women’s spaces. She did krav maga and helps provide security for women’s events. Neither of them will take shit from men. Proud mum...!

What allowances do you make for personal responsibility, and also for parental/family responsibility. Yes, nothing happens in a vacuum, we all have influences, and some of them are insidious. But I managed to raise a feminist daughter despite not being a feminist myself (being a man and all).

But what about parents who just don't encourage their kids to aspire, to question, to think critically? What does the FWR-flavoured feminism say about that? All I'm getting from this discussion is, 'Oh, blame society/patriarchy.' Kids are hugely targeted by social media, not because society hates women, but because everything now is monetised. We all have to recognise that despite our sex, age and personal circumstances.

Being a parent can make blokes better feminist allies too, some of them see sexism much more clearly when it impacts their offspring (not to mention when their daughters pull them up on their own unconscious sexism!)

That was an x-post, not a response to you Jürgen btw.

Parents are part of society, and sometimes patriarchy too, so not exactly sure what point you're trying to make there?

Boys and girls are targeted differently by social media - some parts of which apparently are only too happy to objectify the latter massively.

I do know a lot of young women (all very educated) who are obsessed with the perfect proposal, the perfect wedding, massively into gender stereotypes and all that jazz in a way I and my friends 20/25 years ago never were

There were plenty of young women like that at my school in the mid-70s.

Some one posted "you find your own tribe" That applied then and applied now. I was at school with girls who had little interest in anything other than getting a boyfriend. I was at school with girls doing all 3 parts of the fiendishly difficult Sixth Year Studies Maths course who had no interest in appearances .

I had set my mind on university from around age 11 at a time where around 5-7%of the population went to university. If the OP had met me at 16/17 she might have marked me down as a vain airhead- and I would have played along with it.

There is often an unpleasant air of superiority on here- "if only those silly girls weren't so fooled by the patriarchy they could be just like us"- again I suppose you find your own tribe.

Then again, some don't really fit into a tribe but don't really care.

Another one who didn't really fit into any tribe with a DD who seems to be the same! Definitely has its ups and it's downs.

I led a fairly sheltered youth although looking back I'm quite shocked at some of the misogyny I experienced but was too afraid to question. Maybe for some young women the scales will fall off as they start to have experiences that show them the patriarchy at work? Some may even be inwardly seething at some of the crap that happens but if they have found their tribe and their fellow clans women are spending hours getting Insta Perfect hair and make up they may not want to be the one who asks "Why are we doing this!?" and ceremoniously burning their blending sponges. When you're young the need to fit in can for a while mean you accept things.

I think most of us will have that one perfect moment when we think F that and decide something needs to change. I'm sure these young women will have theirs

Monetisation ..isn’t that part of the patriarchal society anyway?

Before I had kids I found it hard to connect with women who weren't out feminists or at least gender non-conforming to the point of eccentricity. The conversations about diets, shopping, etc made me want to scream and run out of the room.

A dear couple who are of mine moved to a country where behaviour is far more gendered than the UK and it is actually hard to have a social life there and be true to yourself. Conversations are very safe, and by the sounds of it, dull.

So there is often a trade off - loneliness and freedom to do interesting things or company and follow strict gendered social rules.

So you can't really tell by looking at someone (or even listening to what they say) whether they really are into gendered stuff or if they are dying on the inside just to have company.

I've a bad feeling that, if I met some of you in real life, you'd mark me down as an airhead too.

I think, for some if not many, feminism takes experiencing misogyny and recognising it as such.

I've a bad feeling that, if I met some of you in real life, you'd mark me down as an airhead too.

Why's that flo?

I think wanting to be accepted by the opposite sex is far more important to people in their teens and 20s than it is at other times. I also think the pressure women are under to look a certain way is far worse than it ever has been. Some of these women and girls must spend fucking hours on their makeup. by your thirties, most people are in long term relationships and don't have to worry about the things younger people do. Even as a feminist who doesn't care about what men think you still care about what the man you are trying to have sex with thinks. I don't think it's fair to judge them for doing their best with the shitty objectifying hand they've been played.

Other aspects of feminism are harder to grasp before you reach them. Pregnancy, motherhood, infertility, expectations around women who don't want these things. I did not understand these fully until they affected me.

I don't know what it's like to be a woman going through menopause or dealing with life as an older women. I'm not quite middle aged yet. I'm sure there are aspects I don't understand and will need to live though to understand.

But I managed to raise a feminist daughter despite not being a feminist myself (being a man and all)

Feminism is often a response to a certain kind of father IME.

Kids are hugely targeted by social media, not because society hates women, but because everything now is monetised. We all have to recognise that despite our sex, age and personal circumstances.

When men are being told to bleach their arseholes I will agree with you. I mean why not monetise the other 50%.

When men are being told to bleach their arseholes I will agree with you.

Yup

..telling me I couldn't drive a lorry because I was a girl was utter horseshit.

Whoa, steady on!

When men are being told to bleach their arseholes...

Love that - Crying laughing.

Why's that flo?
Because I enjoy a number of gendered activities, not all of them but I'm aways happy to talk about shopping for example. It doesn't mean I'm incapable of thinking about - and I quote - 'interesting things' too.

Wtf is a waist trainer. Can someone post a link to one of these things?

Because I enjoy a number of gendered activities,

Baking decorated cakes is probably considered as gendered activity as shopping but it's clearly perfectly compatible with being a serious feminist!

I hope most of us aren't such shallow feminists as to judge each other by such criteria.

Perfectly put Errol

I found this on 'waist trainers' ... funny malapropism 'widdle' instead of 'whittle'..

www.askfitnesscoach.com/the-dangers-of-waist-training/

If anyone had mentioned a waist trainer to me I'd have assumed it was some sort of Pilates instructor.