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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

transgender supportive, TRA unsupportive

137 replies

polarpig · 03/04/2019 08:42

Am I the only feminist who supports people who are transgender who are living their life as a woman and getting on with it with the minimum amount of fuss, with the support of their partner and not creating TRA style controversy?

I know a lovely transgender woman who I consider to be family and she is just getting on with her life with the minimum of fuss. She is transgender at home and work and is accepted by all and doesn't shout from the rooftops about it.

OP posts:
Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 03/04/2019 12:25

ugly

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 03/04/2019 12:26

ugly

Dont let it put you off

I cant stand it when people say

' am i the only one who....'

Of course you're not...no one is EVER the only one

DpWm · 03/04/2019 12:27

Well, that'll put you off posting again uglyswan...

Barracker · 03/04/2019 12:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 03/04/2019 12:28

And

And

Poster after poster after poster

On thread after thread after thread

Have mentioned their trans friends or family, and that they wish trans people well

But it gets ignored

BadPennyNoBiscuit · 03/04/2019 12:30

Where is OP?

FloralBunting · 03/04/2019 12:34

Yes, got to say uglyswan, I did laugh snort approvingly at 'You're probably prettier than us too.' But you dont want me onside, I am notoriously bad tempered and sweary. And that Rufus is a right one, too.

We should all #BeMoreDatun

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 03/04/2019 12:37
Shock

Ignore floral

Im a fuckimg delight Grin

But yeah #bemore datun

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 03/04/2019 12:38

Oh man

I fucked up my hashtag!

And bloody 8 year olds can do them!!!

buzzbobbly · 03/04/2019 12:41

BadPennyNoBiscuit Where is OP?

Probably off alerting people to come get screenshots while they're hot...

BeardyButton · 03/04/2019 12:41

Yup. And id take it further. I think we need to view the issues in terms of vulnerability to harm. Who is likely to be harmed by what policy, and who is being harmed by failure to have policy in place. How many cases do we actually have of non-cis women harming women and how many cases do we have of transwomen being harmed in virtue of their identity.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 03/04/2019 13:01

Ihavent I went to the cinema last night and saw for the first time the anti-hate crime tv ad (I mean it's only been out since October so I've no idea how I missed it Confused) and it showed various examples of hate towards various protected characteristics. And tagged on to the end was "transgender identity ". Now unless something has changed I'm pretty sure this isn't a protected characteristic yet?! Interestingly there wasn't an example of it shown like the others.

I think what pissed me off though was that "hate" (again, no actual example given of what this may look like, verrrry woolly) towards this group wouldn't be accepted but some bloke heckling my DD in a sexually suggestive manner is all hunky dory and not a hate crime.

Apologies for also derailing thread.

BettyDuMonde · 03/04/2019 13:16

It’s our individual good will towards our trans friends and families that has been quietly exploited for 20 years, bringing us to the point where we are now!

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 03/04/2019 13:18

tellme gender reassignment is a protected characteristic in the EA 2010 afaik - whether that is equivalent to 'transgender identity' is a question - is man or woman the gender identity, and transgender the descriptor, or is that a part of an individual's gender identity too? I don't know, I don't think there are particular rules.
But it is one of the reasons I object to being labelled as 'cis', since I don't have a 'gender identity' of woman, so I am not cis. Humph. It's complicated semantics!

Estcarpwitch · 03/04/2019 13:31

Ugly swan Flowers

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 03/04/2019 13:33

That's what I thought too! And whilst I wouldn't describe myself as a speaker on the subject it did occur to me that to Joe Public watching the ad who has had way less exposure and chance to educate themselves on this topic, just the label "transgender identity " could imply there has been a change in law. Cue some people perhaps even less likely to speak out/question/debate. It's as if some language is knowingly chosen to be vague to shutdown discussion.

buzzbobbly · 03/04/2019 13:35

gender reassignment vs gender identity

It's so so easy for stuff like this to be accepted into common parlance. Where I work, we have an phrase of (e.g.) B90. Originally there were 90 levels of Bxxxx, .

Today there are only 40 levels of B, but some Cxxxx are included too. But B90 persists.

So as it is probably is with the GR vs GI phrasing. Someone just used the latter and it stuck. Nobody bothers questioning it.

GirlDownUnder · 03/04/2019 14:27

I know the OP is long gone but I'm trying to flesh out a thought...

Women and trans women are supposed to be equal under the law. I see us as equal but obviously different. So, if we are equal (under the law), why can't I (AFAB) ID as a trans women?

sackrifice going back a bit you said:
However no trans woman can live as a woman. They do not have the same common ground as women, they are not subject to the same discrimination, health issues, job prospects or reduction in them, they don't take an average 20% pay cut, they will not have wrecked bodies from childbirth, brittle bones from an early menopause, reduction in pension if they took time away from work to bring up a family etc etc etc.

And I agree. So why can I (a FAAB) not ID as a trans woman? And the answer is because your statement would read:
However no woman can live as a trans woman. They do not have the same common ground as trans women, they (women) are subject to discrimination, health issues, job prospects or reduction in them, they take an average 20% pay cut, they will have wrecked bodies from childbirth, brittle bones from an early menopause, reduction in pension if they took time away from work to bring up a family etc etc etc.

Because we are equal (but different).

I guess what I'm trying to say is trans women are not women in the same way as women are not trans women - we cannot experience life as the other.

DodoPatrol · 03/04/2019 14:36

I'm trying to work out what you mean by this:
'How many cases do we actually have of non-cis women harming women and how many cases do we have of transwomen being harmed in virtue of their identity.'

Does the 'non-cis women' bit mean male people harming female people (plenty of examples of that if so), or grumpy feminists with no particular gender ID harming other female people (not so many examples of that, I would think)?

3dogs2cats · 03/04/2019 15:06

Well as someone trying to save a 15 yr old from a life of pain and medical intervention, can I say that the m very glad Polarpigs family member is supported and loved. But they aren’t the point of all this.

Original poster
polarpig · 03/04/2019 15:12

The OP was at work.
3dogs2cats the 15 year old is clearly supported and loved as well.

OP posts:
TurboTeddy · 03/04/2019 15:15

ugly the objection to your sarcastic post looks like a variation of "it's not what you said, it's the way that you said it" or if you want people to listen you have to be nice. It's just the same old same old.
The title of this thread frustrates me, I would have thought treating other people with respect and dignity was a given but it seems if you object to an ideology you need to explain yourself.
If people don't treat you with respect then I don't think you're obliged to show them any, hence the tone of occasional posts on this board when discussing the more aggressive TRA's who seem to delight in causing people distress. Sometimes the unacceptably shocking is mocked as a way of coping when it's being tolerated by authorities that should challenge it.

TurboTeddy · 03/04/2019 15:15

Sorry paragraph fail!

OhHolyJesus · 03/04/2019 15:16

Welcome back OP, do you feel like there are more people like you now? You're not the only one.

Original poster
polarpig · 03/04/2019 15:21

Welcome back OP, do you feel like there are more people like you now? You're not the only one

Yes.
Maybe the thread title should be changed - but what to?

OP posts: