Update: identifying as non-binary for work award

[Somerville1234]

Can't find the old thread... but anyway, there's an award/opportunity at work, only for people who are LGBT+++. I don't remember all the categories but they included genderqueer, genderfluid and genderfree. Also K, which I'm reliably informed stands for kink lifestyle. I don't understand why someone would need a special thing at work for getting off on weeing and whips (?? I don't watch porn, I don't have a clue), but maybe I'm just old fashioned. Anyway, old fashioned or not, I'm gender free because I don't believe in gender. And I wanted the professional opportunity. (Forgive me for the vagueness - being careful because of doxxing.) And you lot were encouraging...

I ended up applying - which didn't involve saying how I met the criteria, just ticking that I did. And then I was perpexedly approached by my woke boss.
(WB "Erm... so you realise that this is for LGBT+++ employees, Somer?"
S "Yes."
WB "Erm...it was my understanding you're a straight woman...?"
S "I'm genderfree and-"
WB: "Really?"
S "Yes, and I think I need to remind you that the staff handbook recommends that no-one should assume anybody elses's gender."
WB: "Oh, terribly sorry about that.")

I then had a lovely meeting with HR where they were very keen to update my pronouns on the system. I told them that being gender free I require the box beside gender to be left empty, but that I can accept female pronouns because that's my biological sex. They were happy with this novel idea and to learn more about the difference between sex and gender. They young HR person didn't know they're not synonyms but he learns something new every day apparently.

And now... I've heard I'm shortlisted for the next round!
It's been announced to the whole company, and I've had a few bemused looks but no direct transphobia, I'm happy to report.
My longsuffering DH (works in same field) has been teased a bit for my gender identity but he's happy to suffer for the sake of my fight for equality.

You’ve made it OP!

twitter.com/lilylilymaynard/status/1115722877796483073?s=21

This may have been discussed elsewhere, but Stonewall’s definition of “homosexual” refers to gender rather than sex. So lesbian only exists in terms of feelz. Sex has gone, it’s just identity.

This might be considered a more medical term used to describe someone who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards someone of the same gender. The term ‘gay’ is now more generally used.

But when you are naked you are naked. Didn’t archaeologists recently announce that the bones of an American war hero (can’t remember the details) were actually female. He was actually a she. Thank god they didn’t try to dead trans them.

Dem bones dem bones don’t lie.

Or the Viking warrior woman:

www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/researchers-reaffirm-famed-ancient-viking-warrior-was-biologically-female-180971541/

One question when people think about wanting to be a mother. Would you say specifically mother or would parent be a synonym, which defaults to mother if you are female. After all many men want strongly to become parents too the feeling may not be hugely sex specific?

For me, it was specifically mother. I wanted to experience those things that my biology fitted me out for: pregnancy and childbirth. Both of which were actually relatively easy and even enjoyable. These are female-specific experiences. They still don't make me identify as female -- an experience is not an identity. They are experiences just like any other; some experiences (such as travelling to another country, getting to know a different culture) are not connected to my body. Some are: getting pregnant and breastfeeding, being groped and molested on the street in Colombia. All experiences, some body related, some not.

I think the evidence points to Casimir Pulaski being intersex, fekko

www.livescience.com/65183-general-pulaski-female-skeleton.html*
*
And

www.nytimes.com/2019/04/07/science/casimir-pulaski-intersex.html

And, fortunately for those times, with a male identity so able to become a war hero rather than a 'barren' woman (to use the pejorative terminology which would have probably applied then).

One quote from the NY times piece:

^ the discovery highlighted the intersex community’s fight against invisibility — first, by history, when it was common for people not to know they were intersex, and more recently, by surgeries that she said erase intersex traits and identity.
“Just imagine if Casimir Pulaski were born today,” Ms. Zieselman said. He may have been raised as a girl, she said, making it unlikely that he would have joined the military and helped Washington.^

Firstly, that of course intersex people should be fully accepted for who they are, but that final paragraph shows the problem of assigning gender, not sex.

One question when people think about wanting to be a mother. Would you say specifically mother or would parent be a synonym, which defaults to mother if you are female. After all many men want strongly to become parents too the feeling may not be hugely sex specific?

I have no idea , as I have never lived in another body or another time and culture. All my ideas about being a parent are influenced by these factors. My thoughts and ideas influence my feelings.

How can I detach my feelings from material reality ? “ oh I’d definitely feel exactly the same if I was a man living in East Africa in the 18th century “ makes no sense to me.

I can’t know how other people feel, but I can observe their actions.

Even if our own time and culture, a man’s ideas of “ being a parent “ seem to be HUGELY different from that of a woman’s . Otherwise there would be more men on here talking about all aspects of pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding and parenting.

The single parent boards would be full of men talking about how to get their ex partners to see their kids or pay child support. Working dads would talk about balancing childcare and work.

This board is millions of threads of proof that the reality of being a mum in our culture is not the same as the lived experience of being a dad. No one stops men coming here and posting on all these topics. I suspect they don’t post because they don’t care enough , they don’t see parenting children are their main job. It’s a hobby they fit around the rest of their lives.

So I don’t know about anyone else’s feelings. Only their actions.

It makes me sad when I see preteens and teens starting to develop more physically - up till that point the girls are just as physical as the boys and then biology fucks women over. And then the patriarchy does.

I wonder if socialisation kicks in earlier actually... Anecdotal and one example yes but I observed the following at a kids' swimming lesson recently: 4 girls and 4 boys in the class. I'm guessing aged 4 to 6 max. Teacher asked them to line up & jump in one at a time. All 4 boys somehow were the first in the line. They all did funny, silly leaps. Then the first girl carefully edged up, sat down and slithered in, and the next girl did the same. Teacher looked uncomfortable (I've never seen him treat the girls and boys differently) and suggested third girl jumped. She chose to slide in too. Teacher really tried to encourage fourth girl to jump and ended up holding her hand while she sort of half jumped.

Imposition of “cisgender” is unfair and it stinks.

In terms of what can be done to help - with some long-term well known feminists coming out as genderfree, it’s now (phew!) much, much bigger than me and my struggle against the workplace imposition of a default ‘cisgender’.

I’m gathering and implementing ideas personally for how to push it forward in my life. If you feel genderfree and support the aims (and I know not all GC feminists do and that’s fine too of course!):
Don’t take risks with financial stability or RL abuse, but change forms that ask your gender to “genderfree - my sex is female” or similar, speak up against “all gender” facilities when safe to do so, follow and engage in the genderfree hashtag on Twitter if you can bear the side dish of misogyny on there. Will come back w more ideas when have more time.

I've just seen someone promoting mentoring for certain groups, including "non binary".

It's a bit weird because I don't actually care about the mentoring, so seems fairer to leave it for someone who is "non binary" and does want it. Well, I wouldn't mind the mentoring but I am very lazy and would probably rather spend the time on MN....I will ponder and ask around to see if anyone else is interested. I don't want to take a place just to take the piss and person involved is probably well intentioned.

I wonder if socialisation kicks in earlier actually.

As we talk about male and female foetuses differently - obviously it does.

One question when people think about wanting to be a mother. Would you say specifically mother or would parent be a synonym, which defaults to mother if you are female. After all many men want strongly to become parents too the feeling may not be hugely sex specific?

For me yes I wanted to be a parent. I really wasn't too keen on the female reproductive role. If I could have taken the male role and had DP do the pregnancy and childbirth bit I'd have bloody loved to. The female specific parts were mainly a chore I had to get through (I liked feeling my babies kick, though, and I also enjoyed breastfeeding for the most part).

If I could have taken the male role and had DP do the pregnancy and childbirth bit I'd have bloody loved to.

Same. Although I was interested in knowing what it would feel like to have someone growing inside you. Some people make it sound so magical. Turns out it makes me feel tired, and nauseous, with headaches and heartburn so I'd certainly be happy to hand that over.

I wonder if socialisation kicks in earlier actually.

Yup, definitely. My daughter is 6 months and the influx of pink gifts has been unreal, plus she's had waaaay more things like soft toys bought for her than my son ever did. Loads of people have said that I'm lucky to have a girl because my son is so high energy but "girls are much quieter". Then when she starts squawking away because, yno, 6 months old, they tell her she "bossy"! My MIL even accused her of making fucking bedroom eyes at people. SHES. SIX. MONTHS. OLD. Its rank, utterly fucking rank.

Well I'm deeply unhappy about the fact the gender free isn't valid. I have a deep spiritual feeling of gender freeness. I think it's so exclusionary to dismiss it....

Oh they are triggered. Rude.

It was hard to concentrate on that drivel Katvon, but is that a TRA mulling over excommunicating the non-binary bods from the Chosen?

Have they finally realised how crowded the umbrella is with 7 billion people under it?

That’s interesting. Turning on non binary people and accusing them of failing. Sounds very transphobic and a little bit like certain TRAs are starting to turn on each other. Oh dear. I wonder how much support they’re going to get now that they’re starting to police who is good enough to be trans?

What is a bimodal trans person?

“Just imagine if Casimir Pulaski were born today,” Ms. Zieselman said. He may have been raised as a girl, she said, making it unlikely that he would have joined the military and helped Washington.

What an odd statement. Are women barred from serving in the armed forces in the US?

I googled bimodal...

It didnt help.

Cis-passing privilege? Biomodal trans people? Give me strength.

Never mind, I'm sure Narcissistic Injury Lawyers 4U will be on it just as soon as they're done suing random inactive mumsnetters over already deleted posts.

From Katvon screen grabs I notice that Adult Human Female is apparently a T**f dog whistle.... should I be whistle blowing the purported 'trans women' who are using it in their twitter bios, and conversation

What is a bimodal trans person?

One with breasts and a penis?

I think what that rant said was if someone looks very unlike a woman, you should believe they are a woman, but if they really are a woman, you get to be rude to them.

Or something.

*whistles

Sex based rights

🐕🐶🐕🐩🐕🐶🐕🐩🐕🐶🐶🐕🐩🐩🐕🐶

Feel I'm straying into furry territory