Update: identifying as non-binary for work award

[Somerville1234]

Can't find the old thread... but anyway, there's an award/opportunity at work, only for people who are LGBT+++. I don't remember all the categories but they included genderqueer, genderfluid and genderfree. Also K, which I'm reliably informed stands for kink lifestyle. I don't understand why someone would need a special thing at work for getting off on weeing and whips (?? I don't watch porn, I don't have a clue), but maybe I'm just old fashioned. Anyway, old fashioned or not, I'm gender free because I don't believe in gender. And I wanted the professional opportunity. (Forgive me for the vagueness - being careful because of doxxing.) And you lot were encouraging...

I ended up applying - which didn't involve saying how I met the criteria, just ticking that I did. And then I was perpexedly approached by my woke boss.
(WB "Erm... so you realise that this is for LGBT+++ employees, Somer?"
S "Yes."
WB "Erm...it was my understanding you're a straight woman...?"
S "I'm genderfree and-"
WB: "Really?"
S "Yes, and I think I need to remind you that the staff handbook recommends that no-one should assume anybody elses's gender."
WB: "Oh, terribly sorry about that.")

I then had a lovely meeting with HR where they were very keen to update my pronouns on the system. I told them that being gender free I require the box beside gender to be left empty, but that I can accept female pronouns because that's my biological sex. They were happy with this novel idea and to learn more about the difference between sex and gender. They young HR person didn't know they're not synonyms but he learns something new every day apparently.

And now... I've heard I'm shortlisted for the next round!
It's been announced to the whole company, and I've had a few bemused looks but no direct transphobia, I'm happy to report.
My longsuffering DH (works in same field) has been teased a bit for my gender identity but he's happy to suffer for the sake of my fight for equality.

I admire your bravery. I hope it will be rewarded. You are an inspiration to all gender free women out here. A role model, indeed!

Oh Red, you have described my experience to a tee.
And being five foot one, taking T is ridiculous isn't it?
If I was tall, I might have been tempted to try.

For me it was around 9 years old where there is a gradual realisation of loss. I knew there was something going on here, but couldn't put a name to the feeling.
This continues to bug me even after having kids.

At the time, I thought it was loss of childhood.
I now know it was my true self was being eroded.
This has stayed with me.

I'm older now and don't give a shit.
But those stereotypes are still being pushed.

I've never done 'woman' the way gender stereotypes dictate I should have done and have never felt comfortable with many of the styles, attributes and behaviours that seem to go with the 'gender'.

I hated my body changing at puberty, loathed periods (I doubt there's a woman alive who doesn't in reality - which makes some of the TRA 'longing' for them even more ironic, of course). I preferred football to girls' 'stereotypical interests, was never interested in fashion, make-up, etc.

As some others have described, the notion of carrying and giving birth to a child was always alien to me and I am childfree by choice.

Genderfree but a woman by sex makes perfect sense to me.

I also starved myself to the detriment of my physical health. Its no wonder I was tired and not motivated.
Does anyone else pull out their hair?

I have done 'woman' but only because I feel I had to in order to be accepted and to operate in the patriarchal society in which we live.
Gender to me is not just something we choose, it's not something we perform but rather is something that is performed upon us due to our sexed body. As women we can never truly opt out.
It is not an axis of oppression but instead IS the oppression.
There is nothing radical about swapping genders, the only progressive act is to be gender free whilst still acknowledging sex and the fact that you can't really opt out of gender being performed upon your sex unless we break down the patriarchy all together.
Gender is brown shirts of the patriarchy, it cannot operate without it.

In my head I'm as smart, as funny, as politically aware as any man.

@RedToothBrush
Based on the not inconsiderable amount of evidence in your political threads, you are smarter, funnier and a hell of a lot more political aware than virtually anyone I know, male or female. Also, you are doggedly determined, and keep on bloody going, which is even more inspirational.

I’d like to address this being a joke or prank.

It’s is not.

Yes, I approached writing about this with some humour. I do that about all sorts of serious subjects. But that doesn’t mean that this isn’t an important matter, nor that I’m not genuine in being genderfree and under the trans umbrella.

LangCleg Blackberry pie quote

(If Pozzled from Twitter is here, kudos! Great tweets!)

Red, I can also identify a lot with what you said. I was a boy when I was younger, if I was asked I'd say I was. I hated my breasts. I dreamed of being able to have a mastectomy. Hated my periods. Would hide under baggy men's clothes. Avoid mirrors.

I didn't self harm because it didn't even cross my mind that I could. I just silently hated everything that was happening to me - I didn't/couldn't talk to anyone about this sort of thing, I internalised it all. I strongly suspect I have ASD.

Strangely though I did always want children. Being pregnant, giving birth, breastfeeding was no problem for me. That and having periods is the only time I feel like a woman though.

The rest of the time? I feel like me. I can't say I feel like a man though as I have no idea what that even means.

Womanly thoughts? Manly thoughts?

I've been shouted down somewhere else for telling them my experience recently. I know nothing about the dysphoria trans kids go through (because dreaming of mastectomies is totally normal?) and I wouldn't have been transed because they go through so much counselling etc. Hmmm, yep, totally wouldn't have told them for years and years that I was a boy. Especially if it were now and I had the internet to coach me on all the right phrases.

I've told my teens I'm gender free. They rolled their eyes. One said he didn't care. Not sure if that was "I don't care because I'm so woke" or an "I don't care because I'm not even listening to you"

Strangely though I did always want children. Being pregnant, giving birth, breastfeeding was no problem for me. That and having periods is the only time I feel like a woman though.

Catsandboots, yes,yes,yes! Well mostly yes - this was one of my epiphany moments that made me realise how much I'd subconsciously been made to feel I was doing "being a woman" all wrong.When I had my children and breastfed them,well those are definitely female things,aren't they? I was doing "woman", I was doing what I was expected to do,getting it right.It was an odd feeling.

I always wanted children,and having had a late miscarriage and produced milk for a baby who wasn't there I very much wanted to breastfeed,those things didn't clash with how I felt otherwise.They are sex based not gender based.

The more I think about it now the more I see I've been uncomfortable in my body, but I am actually small and basically curvy,I can't do that boyish androgynous look which is how I feel inside.But because I'm biologically female I've also got positive and negative things from that.The thing that helped me was feminism,I could be a woman and be like myself.

That's pretty much the same for me. Like everyone else, I am a complex and multi-faceted person. I often wish I had a more androgynous body, instead of the full-on 'voluptuous' one one I've got.
My body shape determines the clothes I end up choosing, rather than the ones I'd really like to wear.

I never grew up imagining wanting to be married and/or to have children, but I seemed to draw men that wanted that. Children arose as a result of relationships, not as a result of an inherent burning desire for a baby. I'm glad I had children, though - and now a granddaughter - even though this has had major impacts on my life choices and options, and on my life style.

There are parts of me that do feel very 'womanly', and others parts that don't relate at all to stereotypical feminine pursuits. As you age, certainly for me, the gendered expectations grow less - because the biological function of fertility and the whole issue of sexuality is no longer relevant, or as relevant.

Being pregnant, giving birth, breastfeeding was no problem for me. That and having periods is the only time I feel like a woman though.

Yes, same for me. I really enjoyed and appreciated the power of my female body at these times. Gave me great confidence in myself and my femaleness. And I always enjoyed sex.

Given the prude shaming seems to outdo the kink shaming, proponents of vanilla sex are indeed a targeted minority.

so true!

This is just marvellous, and thank you for opening so many eyes as to their true gender-free identity Somer. I have not read th first thread but will do so now.

For me it is definitely not a prank or a gimmick to call myself gender-free.

For the last 45 years or so I have been practising a form of meditation known as Self Enquiry, which actively rejects the idea of "gender identity" as being an illusion/delusion, as well as many other "identities" which exist entirely in the ego, ie, in thought, as a mental concept.
It's a very effective way of freeing oneself from all fake, manufactured, identities which exist only in the head and the bother and narcissism that follows in the wake .

At the same time, objective reality such as biological sex is absolutely recognised. This form of meditation was first developed way back in the 40's, in India, and has gained a lot of momentum in the last few years. Nothing trendy or gimmicky about it. The people who do it are mostly very ordinary people with jobs as well as mums and grandmums and people who do vanilla sex.

I didn't feel like a 'woman' when I gave birth. More like an animal, doing what it could to stay alive.
Guess I'm a genderfree, speciesfree wokenspirit.

Somerville and Red
You have really tapped into something important on this thread.
To onlookers it seems lighthearted and a joke but it really isn't.

Just popped on to say that I'm in awe of the way that Somerville is gently and diplomatically challenging the trans activists on twitter.

Catsandboots: Strangely though I did always want children. Being pregnant, giving birth, breastfeeding was no problem for me. That and having periods is the only time I feel like a woman though

Absolutely! I grew up in what one would call a very "backward" country but with a very progressive, very liberal, feminist mother. I "came out" as a boy when I was nine or ten. Apart from school, when I had to wear girl uniform, I always wore "boy" clothes and my mother was very affirming for her time. She added a name to my birth certificate that could be used as a boy name and everyone called me that for several years; she used that name, for instance, to register me for secondary school in England. But this was in the 50's and 60's and nobody even dreamed that boys could really become girls!

In fact what I hated about being a girl was pink, frilly dresses, dolls. I played with animals and loved books and wanted to have adventures, like George of the Famous Five.

These days I would have been prime prey for TRAs. It makes me shudder to think of little girls being turned into boys.

Because, later on, I LOVED being a woman; your quote above absolutely fits me. I chose to be a SAHM because I adore babies: I am now gran to a 11 month old girl and every moment of being with her is fascinating to me. May she never be confronted with this nonsense! Hopefully by the time she's in school it will all have been a nightmare that is thankfully over.

I think a woman's body is a thing of absolute wonder. Babies are absolute miracles and watching them grow is a privilege.

But I have no "gender identity". I still am not a girly woman. I have never worn make-up as a woman, never worn high heels, don't like fashion etc.

Everything that makes me a woman, has to do with my female biology. I have no gender identity. I am gender-free and it's not by any means a prank.

Like the rest of you, I'm not trolling when I say I'm genderfree.

I didn't subscribe to female stereotypes as a child. I wanted to play with cars, not dolls and resented the way society wanted to foist them on me (fortunately my parents were more sensible).

I hated my developing body during puberty. I hated my curves and my breasts. And, to be honest, I still don't like them.

As a teenager I didn't have any interest in make up, fashion, boys, hair, shopping. I was much happier sitting with the boys talking about football.

I longed to be a boy. I would inhabit fantasy worlds in my head where I was a boy.

As a young adult, all my friends were male. We'd go to the pub and drink beer, talk about politics and science. I was happiest wearing jeans, t-shirt and comfy trainers. I wanted to be treated as one of the lads and I hated it when people treated me differently because I was female.

I have resented and pushed against the female stereotypes society has tried to impose on me throughout my life.

So don't tell me that I am fucking c*s.

I have resented and pushed against the female stereotypes society has tried to impose on me throughout my life. So don't tell me that I am fucking cs.*

THIS. I'm a woman and I am genderfree. Respect my fucking self-identity.

Not on Twitter . long felt that the difference between some types of trans and GC female was miniscule. Surely others can not be surprised that many women are coming out in this way, because otherwise they are saying tha trans is a totally new phenomenon

@VickyEadle I'm a woman and I am genderfree. Respect my fucking self-identity.

I just read an utterly hilarious Twitter thread in which MelonCauliflower very innocently ties someone up in knots with that argument!
I am literally spluttering with laughter... a must read.

twitter.com/nononoagh/status/1114153219217924101

Sex is not gender but is sexual characteristics, stuff you’re born with and is used to assign someone a gender at birth but doesn’t have to be of that gender. Pre-op trans women have ladydicks, for example, even though dicks are often associated with men under cis standards.

I take it everyone knows the collective noun for white men?
It’s a podcast of course.
And in further evidence of this there is already one from a couple of Irish fellas called “Mumsnet goes genderfree.” Haven’t had a chance to listen yet as it took me a while to open it. In staggering irony from Soundcloud they they DENIED MY GENDERFREE EXISTENCE (which is surely literally killing us??) by asking me to define whether my gender is male or female to open an account.

How can anyone use SoundCloud now?

I told Google I was genderfree but they could refer to me as female when I set up a new gmail account earlier, so I think they are OK for the moment.

I take it everyone knows the collective noun for white men?
It’s a podcast of course.

Should I listen to that podcast while I'm running later or will it make me want to throw myself under a bus?

Didn’t agree with all of it but they talk a fair bit of sense.