Update: identifying as non-binary for work award

[Somerville1234]

Can't find the old thread... but anyway, there's an award/opportunity at work, only for people who are LGBT+++. I don't remember all the categories but they included genderqueer, genderfluid and genderfree. Also K, which I'm reliably informed stands for kink lifestyle. I don't understand why someone would need a special thing at work for getting off on weeing and whips (?? I don't watch porn, I don't have a clue), but maybe I'm just old fashioned. Anyway, old fashioned or not, I'm gender free because I don't believe in gender. And I wanted the professional opportunity. (Forgive me for the vagueness - being careful because of doxxing.) And you lot were encouraging...

I ended up applying - which didn't involve saying how I met the criteria, just ticking that I did. And then I was perpexedly approached by my woke boss.
(WB "Erm... so you realise that this is for LGBT+++ employees, Somer?"
S "Yes."
WB "Erm...it was my understanding you're a straight woman...?"
S "I'm genderfree and-"
WB: "Really?"
S "Yes, and I think I need to remind you that the staff handbook recommends that no-one should assume anybody elses's gender."
WB: "Oh, terribly sorry about that.")

I then had a lovely meeting with HR where they were very keen to update my pronouns on the system. I told them that being gender free I require the box beside gender to be left empty, but that I can accept female pronouns because that's my biological sex. They were happy with this novel idea and to learn more about the difference between sex and gender. They young HR person didn't know they're not synonyms but he learns something new every day apparently.

And now... I've heard I'm shortlisted for the next round!
It's been announced to the whole company, and I've had a few bemused looks but no direct transphobia, I'm happy to report.
My longsuffering DH (works in same field) has been teased a bit for my gender identity but he's happy to suffer for the sake of my fight for equality.

Can anyone give me more info on Dorothy Dunnet? Which book/s would you recommend? Is she a Feminist? Google only says she writes historical fiction. TIA.

Why it's important to be able to be "out" at work re. the LGB bit:
because everyone else gets to have pictures of their partners on their desk (unless the workplace operates a "clear desk" policy) or chat about their children. Because people will ask you about what you're doing at the weekend and it gets exhausting skirting round your plans, and never mentioning your "special friend." In short, to be included in the normal social life of the office, on an equal footing. Because your relationship and family circumstances are every bit as important to you as a heterosexual colleague's are. And you shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable or excluded*

I have never had photographs of my husband or son at work. Unless it affects my ability to do my job (in which case it is a matter for HR) my relationship and family status has nothing to do with my colleagues and I have no desire to discuss them with colleagues. I find personal questions about what I'm doing at the weekend/ where I'm going on holiday extremely annoying and will avoid answering them.

It's very normal for people to have photos of partner/family on their desk. Most people at my work do. I don't because it's not my thing. It is normal to casually chat about what people are doing outside of work. One of my colleagues recently went abroad to get married and was off work for a few weeks, so we wished her well and gave her a card. Of course it's not compulsory, and you don't have to if you don't want to. What any one individual chooses to do is not relevant.

The point being made is that no one should feel that they have to hide their partner because they are in a same sex relationship.

Nobody should have to ice their partner, for sure.

Their kink life? Most definitely!

Lol! Icing your partner may indeed be a kink thing!

hide their partner!

/arrives late to the collective Mumsnet Coming Out Party 🎈 🎉

/is suddenly reminded of a David Shrigley Venn Diagram...

Hope you win, Somerville, then we can have another celebration! 🍾

Oh, you SPLENDID woman Somer!

You know what this means though?

An Awards Night outfit!

I suggest something in taupe

Just tried out the "Gender Quiz" and I came out as . . . Genderfuzz !!!!

genderquiz.000webhostapp.com

To be honest, I have suspected this ever since the menopause.

Something about the compulsion to skim my chin with the lady shave every few days plus increasing tummy rotundity made me suspect I was morphing into a Teddy Bear

It is a bit too close to being a Furry though so now I am getting a double dose of body and social dysphoria

I don't think you can trust these online transgender diagnoses absolutely totally 100%

Much more liberating to be genderfree! My enjoyment of the absence of a feeling of gender is incredibly enhanced now I know that there is a word for it!

Rooting for Somerville to win the competition and feeling so happy to be in the Mumsnet Genderfree Zone!

ps. If anyone desists or detransitions we don't have to be really vile to them though, do we? Like some sort of cult?

Given the traction this thread has for I'm a bit worried for Somer. I'm really hoping she (pronoun referring to biological sex) changed a lot of details because I imagine if someone reading this is in her workplace, she could be identified.

People on Twitter are referring to it positively as exposing the trans umbrella and how great this "prank" is. The thing is it's not a prank. It does expose how wide the trans umbrella is, but that's exactly because it's not a prank. I and a good number of my middle aged adult human female friends are most definitely gender free too - and have been for longer than some TRAs have been alive. The only reason people won't accept the idea we (all of us here) are gender free is because we're middle aged women. So I hope there's no negative kickback for Somer.

I'm expecting the Daily Fail to pick this up as they do like a bit of lazy journalism.

Well played Somerville. So stunning and brave!

I think Im going to start using genderagnostic

Lang!

Big up for the Dunnett fans

Quiz says I’m a girl (probably). I haven’t been a ‘girl’ since 1983. Ageist bastards.

I agree with axil. The Labour guy failed in joining the women’s shortlist because he talked openly about what he was doing and I fear with the attention on the thread you will be identified and it could harm your career. Personally I’d love for you to see it through still because why the heck shouldn’t you use this nonsense to your advantage as a woman, but maybe get the thread removed and go radio silence for a bit.

I can imagine there’s a lot of outrage in the beardy woke community.

“that’s not how this works”

Actually Brian you beardy bawbag that’s exactly how this fucking works.

Actually Brian you beardy bawbag that’s exactly how this fucking works

😂

B-b-but...women are using it! That’s not what’s supposed to happen! Checkwoke, Brian. We’re only playing by your rules 😬

But somer talking openly about what she’s doing only supports that it isn’t a prank and is legitimately within the rules. If questioning your identity, being motivated to research it on the internet and finding out you are trans as stipulated by stonewall and others isn’t valid, then no one claiming to be trans is legitimate.

That quiz

I'm agenderflux btw

I did the quiz and apparently I'm a LibraGirl. When I googled it I got some - ahem - interesting results.

I'm greygender or agender. Actually this is zero surprise to me as I've always been rather angry at gender stereotyping and found it nonsensical. Now to join a local trans support group. In all seriousness. In all my middle aged, brown haired, boring clothed glory.

I applaud your brave and stunning fight Somerville and I hope you win - but I do have some concerns here. If all of us who have spotted that feminine gender expectations are a prison, and opt out to becoming gender-free aren't we ceding ground and saying that anyone who doesn't do this is rightly labelled "cis"? And agreeing that femaleness is about identity not biology? The trouble is that the whole alphabet-soup movement is about enforcing the idea that everyone must be in their box, and whilst you can choose which box to be in, you have to respect the system of boxes or you are invalidating other people's choices. Picking the agender box is a great choice as an individual but it necessarily validates the box system that ought to be opposed.

Meanwhile feminism is entirely unrelated to gender presentation and is solely about the liberation of those whose sex (not gender) is female. If there start to be large numbers of women who identify as agender, can we hope to establish a new wave of pan-gender-inclusive feminism which is understood as open to everyone (whether identifying as man, woman or neither) whose fundamental biology excluding any hormone or surgical treatment is originally female? I know this is technically already true but it isn't understood as such - I am sure most transmen would hate to be included in feminism as it is currently understood, but a stronger emphasis on the huge spectrum of gender identities across all those whose sex is female, coupled with more understanding of how being of the female sex makes you subject to sexual discrimination regardless of gender presentation, might be helpful?

I’m a bit worried about Sommerville too. I worry people will be trying to find her place of work inorder to “expose” her. I hope I’m very wrong.

Funny as it is, the subject matter is too serious to be written off as a prank.

Somerville is simply playing by the rules, as defined by the trans community themselves. If it shows people that it's the rules, not Sommerville, that are ridiculous misguided, then that can only be a positive move.

Play it straight, Somerville. I hope you succeed. And even if you don't win, you know that you stood up to be counted when it mattered, and that in itself is perhaps a more precious achievement.

^ ^ What Timelady said.

Wonderful. Just wonderful 🙌🏻

Of course its not a prank. Its very real that the vast majority of women are having the category of "cis" enforced upon them, misgendering them, due to such factors as having had a sexist upbringing, being so well-socialised to compliance with the patriarchy that they don't like to rock the boat, being frankly too overwhelmed with coping with day to day responsibilities to have time to self-analyse true gender feelings.

I suspect that if a sample of 1000 women were all given the space, time and freedom to examine their preconceptions, and untangle the socialisation of their upbringing from their true understanding of themselves, and universally accepting that gender and sex are different things and there's no expectation to define your feelings as "what a woman feels like" then very few of them - I would guess around 10% - would claim to have a gender feeling of "woman" that is independent of their knowledge of themselves as female from a biological point of view. And half of those who did pick "woman" would do so from a point of view that the whole thing is nonsense and its best to keep things simple. The rest would all be picking gender free/agender/gender fuzz etc because there isn't a thing that being a woman feels like that is independent from biology.