More, poor me nonsense

[Ameanstreakamilewide]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/31/trans-day-of-visibility-swimming-pool?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

'The thought of stepping into such a highly gendered space where someone could potentially target me because of certain physical features of mine is terrifying.'

Well, that's rich!

And as the great philosopher Jagger once said 'you can't always get what you want'.

FermatsTheorem, Lent is actually 40 days plus six Sundays (every Sunday is a celebration of the Resurrection so they don’t count), taking us up to Easter Sunday, not Palm Sunday. Holy Week is still Lent, otherwise we’d be able to stop our Lenten observances (eg giving things up), which we don’t. Some people do stop their observance, for instance by having a drink or some chocolate, on Sundays though.

Anyway, derail onto the liturgical seasons definitely over now.

Reading the comments on the Guardian, I can't help noticing that the Guardian is ignoring some very well-argued, eloquent posts in favour of those that support their angle as their 'picks'.

It's about changing rooms

'Suddenly I was unwelcome because of the strictly gendered nature of the changing rooms, where I risked being harassed and assaulted for even daring to step into either one.'

All the public pools in my area have changing villages.

I think this person hasn't even bothered looking into it.

It’s a selfish and abusive violation of our boundaries

Yes it is.

There are no pools near me with changing villages, to be fair.

Most swimming pools I have been to have an open room with individual cubicles where you can change into your swimming things. So you don't have to get naked with men. Then there are single-sex showers where you CAN get naked if you want to. I'm OK with that.

I pointed out in reply to one comment (which was depressingly 'burn-the-witch') that a judge had recently acknowledged that t*rf is not just descriptive, it's a term of abuse. Predictably it didn't get past the mods.

a deliberate attempt to conflate women’s concerns and rights to something most people subconsciously associate with prejudice

Exactly this and there has been a lot of it recently.

I used to write articles for crappy websites which had to have a number of terms shoehorned in to help with SEO.

Articles by trans people increasingly follow the same technique. On the checklist:
Hostile media
Ever so frightening
Health at risk
High suicide rates, especially among young people
Just want to get on with life - why are you so mean?
Section 28 all over again.

It's so tedious. And the sad thing is that the thing that is putting their health at risk is taking hormones which no one knows the long term effects of.

So yes, I'm sure there will be a health crisis in the trans community. But it will be nothing to do with being frightened of changing in single sex changing rooms

I just want to go to the gym, enjoy swimming once more and use the bathroom without fearing harassment and abuse

Every day of a woman's life from puberty, Owl. Every fucking day. You want to be a woman. It comes with a fuck ton of harrassment

This, im Fucking SPADES. if you want so desperately to be one of ‘us’ then fucking stand with us on this. That just highlights the ludicrousness of the situation wants to be a woman, thinks they are a woman, HASNT the first fucking idea of what our daily lives actually consist of (hint, it’s not masturbating in front of a mirror in our underwear)

I thought the whole deal with Owl was that Owl 'passed'? Maybe not.

I have a ladies only swim night twice a week at my local pool. One of those sessions includes children both male and female. These sessions are predominantly occupied by Muslim women. When I've been, which isn't regularly, I've heard Muslim teenage girls ahead of me specifically ask if the lifeguards are female. The women there are mostly wearing neck to ankle swimming costumes with their hair uncovered. The mums there are teaching their kids to swim.

This pool has a changing village with family and individual cubicles and one lot of open showers at one end, closed showers at the other.

If Owl turned up at one of these sessions Owl would be putting both the management and their customers in a very difficult position. There are several other adult swim only sessions where I don't think anyone would bat an eye.

What this comes down to is it's perfectly possible for Owl to go swimming in the UK and feel comfortable but Owl has issues and that is nothing to do with women swimming. By writing this article Owl is making an issue out of nothing, which to be fair, is the new trans ideology in a nutshell. Before all this we were all fine and living respectfully and peacefully. Now it's all gone to shit as you give an inch and they want a mile.

Well if owl passes, all ht y are getting is the true marker of womanhood, mysoginistic body shaming.

Welcome to your new life dearie.

Pity they closed the comments. Somebody said "I have been to a swimming pool in Germany where nobody was clothed and nobody took a blind bit of notice or interest in anyones nudity. Why are we so different in the UK?"
This is not true. In Germany there are open areas with cubicles where everybody changes, but the showers where indeed everybody strips down naked are absolutely separated by sex. I lived in Germany for 49 years, been to many pools, and it is ALWAYS like this.
Saunas are usually mixed sex, but every sauna would have a women only area, or women only day or time.
OTOH, in Germany there are many lakes and rivers and beaches which have FKK areas -- that is, areas where you can strip naked to swim and sunbathe. Same in Austria. It's true that nobody bats an eyelid there. But if you don't want to strip naked, you just don't go.

Also, my daughter once went to a mixed sauna in Germany. It was a huge kind of landscape area, very nice. She went with her boyfriend, and they were both naked. She said she was uncomoftable the whole time because the men were just staring at her the whole time. I think men just can't help it!
In future she only went to women's sauna with me.

Of course men can help it!

Anyway

We go to Austria a lot and it's a different society. People are much quicker / more ready to call out others if they are breaking the rules, at least in the areas I've been. So it's a very different dynamic.

I've been to a river in Austria where half the people seemed to be naked. This was near Salzburg. It wasn't an FKK specific area -- there were clothed people, families there as well. And quite a few willies!
When I said "men can't help it" it's that they do have an instinct to want to look at naked women -- especially young attractive ones. They can of course help giving i to that instinct and NOT looking/staring! Staring is always rude.
I once went to a mixed sauna in Germany when I was quite young still, early 30's, no kids yet . The men did not stare openly but I did have the feeling of heightened awareness on their part. Added to that is the fact that I am dark skinned and they were all white and Germany was not (at the time) very racially diverse so I guess I did pull a lot of clandestine glances. It was the first and last time in a mixed sauna for me.

I am in Scandinavia,as the pp in Germany said sex differentiated changing rooms containing communal showers for the mandatory naked shower pre swimming, and shared saunas where people can chose to be nude

I can't see how it would be at all possible for a TW to be comfortably there from either viewpoint