Joani Walsh was at Accenture, says no trouble beforehand

[Yambabe]

twitter.com/joaniwalshi/status/1109913794342457344

Thread there. Seems they may not have been asked to leave before the police were called after all.

That was my impression from the video I saw - the first time they were asked to leave was when the police arrived?

There doesn't have to be "trouble" before the police can use their powers to PREVENT a breach of the peace. (See case law involving the miner's strike, the 'kettling' of protesters and so on and so on and so forth)

The police spokesperson and the Accenture spokesperson both say that the group had been asked to leave AND refused. Presumably they then sat on chairs, ate pizzas and continued as though they were determined to remain.

The refusal was enough for the police to make a reasonable assumption that the group would have to be forcibly removed if they continued to refuse (and sit on chairs, eating pizzas).

Political rights activists KNOW this part of the common law and know how far they can go. In this instance, there was a positive result - no detention but maximum publicity.

theOtherPamAyres
Your comparison of women with tickets at an inclusive event to the miners strike and Kettering is risible

I don't think Pam's trying to say it's the same thing in terms of the way events unfolded, just that the same legal precedent is involved (with a strong suggestion - though I don't want to put words in her mouth - that in this instance the law is an ass.)

We've got another thread going on "Regulatory Capture" at the moment, where I raised the issue of "mission creep". What Pam's alluding to is an instance of this in action, I think. Law starts with situation where previous cases have led to violent breach of the peace, and gives police powers to act pre-emptively (miners' strike). Then gets extended to "kettling" at political demonstrations (which many of us found a really unsettling authoritarian over-reach at the time). Now extended to women peacefully munching pizza at an event for which they had quite legitimately obtained tickets.

The statement from Accenture specifically said they had been asked to leave and refused, and that was why the police were called.

It would be normal at an event such as this that representatives of the organisers and in-house security would be involved long before it would be deemed necessary to involve the police.

The point here is that they weren't.

It obviously should have been kettling

Sorry, my quote marks weren't a dig at you (I know how mobile phones misbehave); I was simply repeating the scare quotes in Pam's post.

And yes, Yambabe's point is the pertinent one; one side (the TRAs) claim that Julia et al. were asked to leave before the police were called, the other side (Julia's) says the first they knew about it was when the police arrived. One side has to be lying. I know who my money's on.

The statement from Accenture is damage limitation. Also known as a big fat lie.

I do wonder why they were filming before the police showed up, if they had no prior indication that their presence was causing or likely to provoke an issue.

That's ok Fermats I didn't think it was a dig. As soon as I re-read my post I thought damn, should have checked before posting

I do wonder why they were filming before the police showed up, if they had no prior indication that their presence was causing or likely to provoke an issue.

Because they wanted to demonstrate the inevitable harnessing of power to silence them. Highly successful, weren't they?

Now we know exactly where the power resides and who is and, more to the point, who is not, suffering from oppression.

Although the word Kettering makes my post risible

The harnessing (and misuse of) state power, not just any old power.

We're talking not about nightclub bouncers or private security firms, but the police, who are not meant to be there to enforce political obedience to particular ideologies, but to protect the population from genuine crime.

This needs repeating, over and over again - women are being subject to police action for asking awkward questions.

Joani has now replied to my specific query on twitter.

Seems they were asked to leave before the police were called. They asked why and were told they were making someone unspecified feel uncomfortable.

It could still have been dealt with by in-house security at this point.

twitter.com/joaniwalshi/status/1109942909829287938

I suspect this was why they started to film whatever was going to happen next.

from The Telegraph article:
(extracts)
"Tickets to the event were freely available to the public, with organisers Helena Pradip and Oliver Holmes of the Pride in Accenture diversity network sending a message to ticket holders which said: 'Please be reminded that this event is centred around inclusion, open to everyone of all ages.'

At the event, however, Ms Pradip told the women: “My panel does not feel comfortable with you here”. (continues)

There was no indication from organisers Miss Green was responsible for the complaint.

Commander Jane Gyford of the City of London Police said: “Police were called by security guards of a private property on Fenchurch Street at 18.26 on Thursday 21 March 2019. The security guards reported a group of four people who were causing antisocial behaviour and refusing to leave the property. Officers attended to assist the security guards and ensure there was no breach of the peace.”

[this is confirmed in the video by the Police Officer who states (YouTube 2:27) that "Our legal framework here is to prevent a breach of the peace and thats what you guys are going to do. We've been told you're being disruptive......... They've said you've been disruptive and rude" ]

A spokesperson for Accenture said: “Our request was based on security concerns expressed to us by participants at last night’s events. Although an unfortunate situation, we made a polite request that several individuals leave the gathering. Upon their refusal, we sought assistance.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/22/seven-police-officers-sent-remove-four-women-inclusive-talk/

So the questions are whether the women were 'asked politely by Accenture staff to leave, that they refused & behaved anti-socially before 18:26 when police were called & given such information to inform their response

"Commander Jane Gyford of the City of London Police said: “Police were called by security guards of a private property on Fenchurch Street at 18.26 on Thursday 21 March 2019. The security guards reported a group of four people who were causing antisocial behaviour and refusing to leave the property. Officers attended to assist the security guards and ensure there was no breach of the peace.”

And six people were stabbed in London where were the police? Throwing there weight around with more questioning lesbians? or perhaps arresting people for wrong think? Security could have delt with it themselves instead they called the police who sent seven officers who patronised two women calling them guys on more than one occasion and from my eyes looked like they were provoking them

Joani Walsh doing great work on this stuff

Joani 🍷🍷💃💃💪💪

Although the word Kettering makes my post risible

I'm dyslexic so I parsed it as kettling the first time and got all nostalgic for The Meaning of Liff when you followed up by mentioning Kettering. Thanks for bringing a touch of light relief to a dismal topic.

Kettering (n.) The marks left on your bottom or thighs after sunbathing on a wickerwork chair.

Joani Walsh
@joaniwalshi
Police have now been called to Lime St Station where razor blades behind a picture of Dr Julia Long have been discovered. Merseyside Police are investigating Anthony Gormley sculptures of Julia Long covered with Accenture Doesn't Have Balls stickers.

The completed FWR Accenture thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3539529-Lesbians-removed-from-Accenture-inclusive-trans-event-by-7-police-officers?

A few points:

• Accenture is a big company and of course the police are going to come when they call. Especially as this is the City of London Police rather than the Met, and they are (I assume) funded by said big companies. There are 676 CoL police officers and 4000 population. (Plus commuters of course, but presumably most had gone home by this time.)

Saying 'someone was stabbed in Peckham' (or wherever) is not a good argument, because it's not the same police force.

• yes, Accenture had the right to ask them to leave, at which point they were trespassing
• it is not a criminal offence to trespass, and apparently the police have no power to evict people for that reason marstonholdings.co.uk/burlington-group/trespass-claims/
• however it seems Accenture's goons DO have such a right but it is risky for them to do so www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q56.htm
• the police can arrest for or in anticipation of 'breach of the peace' but it's not clear that occurred here.
• the police can of course turn up for the opening of an envelope and 'observe', but the video has them manhandling Julia Long. I am not clear the basis for this?

Interestingly, the Police Authority for the City of London Police is the City of London Corporation, through its Court of Common Council. (in case anyone thinks its part of the Metropolitan Police)

Mr/Ms Edward Lord (non-binary) is a member of the Court of Common Council.

Remember him/her/them?

As soon as I heard it was City Police I knew M. Edward Lord (non binary) would have a hand in there somewhere.

GC women at their all-inclusive-but-better-not-let-the-likes-of-Julia-Long-in event? Immediate police attendance & removal = mandatory.