Michael Heseltine

[BlackForestCake]

I see a lot of people are praising Michael Heseltine's speech at the anti-Brexit march yesterday.

If Theresa May goes this week that means Hezza will have played a role in bringing down both of UK's female prime ministers.

I am just waiting for some terrible cod-“feminist” take on this angle to appear in one of the papers.

Izzat so.

Cool story, bro.

It was Geoffrey Howe I recall who was the catalyst for "bringing down" Mrs Thatcher. A large number of ministers were involved.

As for "bringing down" it was the right thing to do for their party and the country.

How many male prime ministers has he helped to bring down?
If they needed bringing down then I don't have a problem with it - Thatcher needed to go but I'm not convinced about May needing to go. She probably will go but the country needs consistency not musical chairs at the moment.

Have a cup of tea while you are waiting

The Tory party cabinet appear to be using the same tactics as they used on MT.

IIRC it was Theresa who called them the nasty party.

But they want rid because she can't do the job. Not because she is a woman.

Have a cup of tea brew while you are waiting

And a to go with that tea.

Thanks for coming over to Feminism Chat to post that though.

If what you really wanted to say was "ooh look, a man has brought down two female prime ministers, let's have a discussion about it", why didn't you write that?

Politics is a dirty business and most politicians in high office have a short shelf life.

Most politicians want power for themselves and will be thinking next step ahead as to how to oust the person at the top unless that person suits them or challenging them will do more damage to their own personal position. If you have a winning leader, challenging them is counter productive.

Most politicians are men.

Therefore the odds are high that at some point:

any women or man in high office will either be brought down or attempted to be brought down by others

and

that the challengers will be men or predominantly men - because they out number women.

TM might not be doing a great job but she's tried and seems genuinely sincere in trying to work for public service. When you look at the alternatives, it's a car crash. Michael Gove for PM? Come on!

A major reason for this spurious connection is he is still fairly alert at 86.

Another reason is Theresa has looked doomed since she lost the party’s majority in the House.

Theresa has looked doomed since she became PM, being the ‘fall guy’, the one they could blame when things went tits up.

Naturally nothing to do with all the infighting and the fact they say no to everything. Isn’t there a politics or current affairs section in talk?

It is interesting, though to see links to a past when it was actually possible to have a moral compass and also be a Tory. Soon there won’t be any of his like remaining.

The Tories only appoint women in desperate times. Thatcher was only intended to be a stop gap, but unexpectedly turned green and split her shirt and stayed. May only got the job because nobody else wanted it.

So painting the Conservatives as in the vanguard of feminism because they have had two woman leaders is disingenuous at best.

Do I mean vanguard? Maybe i i don’t. Taking a lead in, is what I meant. I suspect vanguard might mean bringing up the rear.

You were right first time, Bert.

May only got the job because nobody else wanted it

There was a leadership contest involving 2 balllots. Gove,Stephen Crabb, Liam Fox,Leadsom and May put themselves forward.

In the first-round , May, got the support of half of MPs, with Leadsom in second place. Fox was eliminated ; Crabb withdrew Gove was eliminated in the second round. Leadsom withdrew from the third round.

How do you get from that to "nobody else wanted it"

As for downplaying the fact the Tories had 2 female leaders and 2 PMs, belittle it all you like - doesn't alter the fact that Labour for all its AWS nonsense hasn't managed even a leader of the Westminster Party (the pretty useless Dugdale was briefly leader in Holyrood ) let alone a PM.

“You were right first time, Bert.”

Thank you. I’m not really up on military terms. I have no idea why I used it in the first place.

Lass- i’m not “belittling” anything. Just pointing out a few facts. And I don’t think I said the Labour Party was any better, or even as good, did I?

It was a woman who brought down the then PM, Ted Heath.

She stood as a 'stalking horse' candidate against him when all the male cabinet ministers didn't want to get their hands dirty.

After the first round of votes, the same cabinet ministers patted her on the head and said: "We'll take it from here, thank you, Maggie"

And she told them to feck off.

Yep. Classist and misogynist King-makers.

Just pointing out a few facts

Like the "fact" no-one wanted the leadership job? 5 people fought a contest for it. Johnson wanted it too but was knifed by Gove before the campaigns started.

I didn't know he was still alive

What is wrong with a thread on this board in which people can discuss women in politics? There is a discussion to be had about whether Michael Hestletine would have behaved differently if Margaret Thatcher & Theresa May had been women. I know there have been calls for him to have the Conservative whip withdrawn for his anti Brexit statements. Seems as if Theresa May has enough problems with her own cabinet let alone worrying about him. I always think she would have liked people to see her as a UK Angela Merkel but couldn't manage it.

Feminism isn’t about ignoring the stupid and destructive things that people do if they happen to be female. Theresa May has been a terrible Prime Minister. She completely lacks the mental flexibility and negotiating skills that were needed to get us through Brexit, and in the 11th hour she shamelessly attempted to whip up mob anger against Parliament when she was the main culprit. I don’t care how brave and persistent she has been. She’s made a total mess of a situation much worse, and the likelihood is we’ll all pay dearly for that.

Michael Heseltine is a senior politician with enough wisdom, experience and integrity to call her out instead of putting Party before country. The fact that he is male and she is female is neither here nor there. He is right, and she is wrong.

It’s a well known anti feminist trope- the “I thought women were supposed to support each other” line. “Not very sisterly, are you?” “Who needs men when women are tearing each other down?”. It’s designed to knock us off balance and take our eyes off the main issue.

Because Michael Gove stabbing Boris in the back is something to aspire to presumably.