‘I have a handbag therefore I am a woman’

[Lomondstripe]

I’m not sure what the rules are here on posting screenshots of tweets, but I have just read the most INFURIATING thread on twitter where a talks about a gold lame handbag and red lipstick and how it marks them out as so CLEARLY a woman and stops misgendering and dysphoria. Great for them.

But, despite a veneer of gender fluidity and breaking down of stereotypes, why oh why oh WHY are we stating that femininity = female?! It’s utterly bonkers! Am I, a cisgender heterosexual woman, not as much of a woman because I don’t wear red lipstick and carry a gold handbag?

I believe this is what they call ‘peak trans’? Count me on side - I can sit on the ‘oh but maybe we should just be kind’ fence no longer and should have trusted my gut from the beginning!

a gold lame handbag and red lipstick and how it marks them out as so CLEARLY a woman and stops misgendering

Nah, mate. That just marks you out as a laydee who'll kick off if called 'sir' not 'ma'am'.

he sometimes wears make up, nail varnish, loves fashion and is gay, so some typically female traits

Dear God in heaven. What a stupid comment.

What does Terfy mean? It isn’t on translate.

No no no. I can see where this conversation is going and what the intention of this poster is. Anyone who engages is complicit in both this thread being derailed and possibly deleted.

It happens again and again and again.

Don't say (generic) you weren't warned and don't blame it on being goaded.

Any sea lions here?

So "loves fashion" is a feminine trait? Bullshit! some of the most fashion obsessed individuals I have known were all male. Though of course I never thought to ask them if the identify as male.

And a lot of (the famous) designers are male men. Often gay male men but at least they know the difference between men and women. I guess it’s all that looking at bodies that does it.

The only time I had it explained me and could relate was when a trans friend said when they looked in a mirror (even when they were young), they saw a guy looking back at them that they didn’t connect to, but when they see themselves now in a mirror they recognise that person as themself

I know how to fix it then!!

I did a hypnotherapy course once and the theory was that making changes is difficult because you don’t recognise your new identity.

So if people lose weight, for example, they don't recognise the slimmer them in the mirror, so tend to slip back into their old ways. Hypnotherapy is supposed to help you view your new slim self as the person you’re supposed to be.

So by that logic hypnotherapy should help people who’s insides don’t match?

I don’t have a handbag. Or red lipstick. I am a man.

*Makes dr’s appointment for a DNA test to check chromosomes.

Any sea lions here?

No. Not at all.

A what now?

Could the poster's comments be a red herring for a wider agenda? Just reading them has given me a haddock.

What’s with all the sea life?

Fishy comments abound.

lime it is in response to simonJT’s comment that men are not nurses.

Ah ok thanks spokk

I don't own a handbag. I don't wear dresses or make-up. I have (men's) trousers with good pockets. I have a vagina. I've never had a penis. I'm a woman.
You may also cutout the first part and just start with 'I've never had a penis'. That works too.

LordProfFekkoPhD - I think it's a reference to this. wondermark.com/sea-lion-verb/

But there is some interestingly deliberately disingenuous posting going on on this thread... one might almost suspect (to continue the fishy theme) a fishing expedition.

I agree with SimonJT’s comments if you replace the word ‘trait’ with stereotype. It’s there for a reason but that doesn’t make it true or right. It certainly can’t be used to define anyone - the fundamental problem in this whole argument. One which is used by a group of people who seem to want to choose their identity by choosing a different stereotype?

One which is used by a group of people who seem to want to choose their identity by choosing a different stereotype?

If i chose a different stereotype for my identity- dreaded my hair, listened to reggae, and ate rice and peas, spoke in patois, does that make me black?

No. Choosing to conform to a socially constructed set of of norms for something does not make you that thing.

I cannot become a man any more that I can become a black person.

I’d quite like to be an alien. 🌝 For some reason, you get looked at funny if you say you are human on ethnic origin, even though it is all you can be really.

On The Voice last night, Tom Jones wore a pink suit. On the mermaids scale, we all know what that means. I wonder who is going to tell him her.

talks about a gold lame handbag and red lipstick and how it marks them out as so CLEARLY a woman

- ? Confusing.

To be fair to Simon, we do actually all know what 'traits typically considered to be female' are, because it's what makes us gender non-conforming. I think it's a specious argument not allowing someone whose native language isn't English to resort to the existance of stereotypes. He wasn't speaking in support of them.

Also, this "when they looked in a mirror (even when they were young), they saw a guy looking back at them that they didn’t connect to" well, welcome to my life. I've never looked like the picture in my head. It used to bother me a lot, then I realised it was actually a tiny part of life and not that important, so I ignore it. Surfaces aren't especially important.

Yeah, my first thought about a new poster of a demographic possibly the furthest from Mumsnet’s target demographic and only posts on FWR type threads is more sea lions than San Francisco...

"we do actually all know what 'traits typically considered to be female' are, because it's what makes us gender non-conforming" Sorry, not conforming to those stereotypic traits is what makes us GNC.

I've done too many things today, and I'm quite scattered.

I’ve been called ‘sir’ despite owning a gold handbag AND a cunt.

I’m amazed at my good fortune of having survived such literal violence.