Complaining about an "anti-TERF" workshop at YIWW - help please!

[GraceMarks]

There was a thread on here a while back about a workshop that was being run as part of York International Women's Week called "Why we fight the TERF wars". I'm planning to write to the YIWW organising committee and complain about its inclusion, but I need to do it in such a way that explains why the word t**f is offensive and anti-women without trying to get into the whole "TWAW" debate. The people who run this thing are ultra-woke and anything I say that could be interpreted as transphobic (i.e. pretty much anything other than wholesale agreement with their ideology) will only result in my complaint being ignored.

I have been trying to find the details of the ruling by a judge that t**f is a misogynistic slur, but I can't for the life of me remember in what context it came up. Was it in the civil case against Miranda Yardley? Can anyone point me towards it?

I don't think the "TERF is a slur" website would be especially helpful, as I've noticed screenshots on there recently which seem to suggest that some TRAs see it as a badge of honour to be included...

Deborah Cameron is a linguist who has written widely on feminist issues. Here is her take on the word "terf" (from 2016, and language moves quickly in trans matters):
debuk.wordpress.com/2016/11/06/what-makes-a-word-a-slur/

No idea, but have a bump, that's shocking.

Yes I think it was during that court case. I'm just walking right now, will find ref for you in a bit if no one else does before then.

Yes, it came up in the ridiculous trial of @MirandaYardley

Sonia Poulton
@SoniaPoulton
'TERF' was acknowledged as a derogatory word in court aimed at, primarily, gender critical women. Helen Islan said it was just 'social media shorthand'.

Thanks all. It is tricky to formulate an argument against the use of the term without having to go into explaining the gender-critical stance, and opening up the TWAW can of worms. I'm not sure I'm equal to the task but I feel like I have to try.

These people do not care one bit if a group of mostly older feminists feel alienated and threatened by the direction these sorts of events have taken in recent years - they want to keep us out and will probably be glad to hear that their language is having that effect. But I can't bear to not say anything. Some thinking to do!

Point out the indiscriminate nature of the term, that just speaking up for women's sex based rights gets you that label.

I have lots of recent screenshots for you of violent threats against women using terf. Sometimes these can work better than trying to explain, it clearly shows how this kind of thing is aggression against women without you having to be in a defensive position.

Terf is an insulting and belittling synonym for gender critical feminist. Gender critical feminists don't think trans women are women.

I can't see a way of explaining why it's insulting without saying that you don't think trans women are women, because it's an insult directed at women who don't think trans women are women.

And, whether you like it or not, saying trans women are not women is transphobic.

Good luck Grace. I hope you have more success than I did. I didnt intend to quit on it but work life has gotten in.the way recently!

DadJoke It's quite easy to explain how it's insulting actually, you just need to look at the examples I'm giving you of how it's used mainly by men and transwomen to threaten women with violence. Regardless of how objectionable you may find anyone's views - and no, to define people as male of female is not 'transphobic', not a 'fear' of trans people, but a statement of fact - to threaten violence is unacceptable.

Or this very recent example of the term used on IWD:

twitter.com/KieranBennett/status/1103928452283944960

TERF graves are gender neutral bathrooms

DadJoke it is a fairly indiscriminately used term these days, though. Anyone can be labelled a t**f, including men like Graham Linehan and trans women like Miranda, and it doesn't necessarily have to be because you disagree that TWAW. The problem is that once you have the label, anything you might say is irrelevant and you will be ignored. I suppose I wanted to try to get around that somehow, but perhaps it isn't possible. I'm very disheartened tbh.

I have plenty more where these came from if you want them, there's no shortage of supply...

The term is applied to people who are not radical feminists and to women who are inclusive of trans people who are female, ie transmen.

The term doesn't mean what those who supports its use say it means. So what does it mean? As this thread shows, it's a derogatory term used as a slur.

abuseofpowercomesasnosurprise Yes - it's easy to prove it's insulting. It's frequently used combined with death threats and dehumanisation. The issue is - who does it insult? And the answer is gender critical feminists. I suppose if you pointed them at the website with all the terf-based insults it might do the job, but there is a danger that they will say that it's only directed at gender critical feminists, thereby going against OP's request

Transphobia isn't "fear" of transgender people any more than homophobia is fear of gay people or Islamaphobia is fear of Muslims. The suffix -phobia has been broadened in meaning.

I think that trans women are male - that is they were born with the typical genotype and phenotype of a person with XY chromosomes. I call that male. I don't think people are assigned female I think they are identified female or male, or intersex. This probably makes me transphobic. If I am transphobic, then I am transphobic.

I think they are of the gender women, that is culturally and sometimes legally women. (I know everyone here disagrees with me and I don't want to engage again on this thread on this subject, partly because it gets nowhere, and partly because I don't want to be accused of thread crapping or mansplaining.)

And, whether you like it or not, saying trans women are not women is transphobic.

No it isn't. You can't just make up your own reality and expect everyone to fall into line when it goes against everything they know. What that does is devalue the word "transphobic" so that it applies to everyone in some way except the most extremist purveyors of the ideology.

Also: what's a woman? What is a male person identifying as to be a "trans woman"?

Dad - Re "saying trans women are not women is transphobic"

Transphobia is about prejudice, hate, and discrimination directed at trans people.

"Trans women are not women" is a statement of biological fact. It's all fine to say "I feel like a woman", enjoy wearing makeup and dresses, take hormones and grow breasts, etc if that is what you want to do but unless you are a female adult human, you are not and can never be a woman.

If you disagree, I suggest you check out the word Woman in any dictionary and learn that it is defined as Adult Human Female.

they are of the gender women

This idea that 'woman' is a gender is what I wholly reject. Woman is adult, human, female. I am a woman because I'm an adult, human, female. I don't conform to feminine ideals, I hate that we force people into gender boxes at all. The idea that that means in your philosophy I'm therefore not a woman is completely offensive.

Laws were written using the word woman to mean people like me - adult, human, female. They didn't mean people who subscribe to the idea of a woman being a set of sex stereotypes but who aren't adult, human, females. Sex. Not Gender.

TERF is being used as a threat and an insult. It is used to silence people who believe that sex based stereotypes are harmful to all people and that we should not be categorised by the way we dress, speak or wear our hair.

Gender Critical people would like to break down gender stereotypes and see all humans as valid, respected and equal whatever their presentation and reject polarisation according to socially constructed stereotypes. They reject oppression based on sex and reject categorisation based on external factors. The accept the right of everyone to express themselves without harm to others.

The creation of hate surrounding the word TERF and the use of the word in association with threats of violence, doxxing and arrest is silencing those who wish to reject gender stereotypes and sex based oppression.

No it isn't. You can't just make up your own reality and expect everyone to fall into line when it goes against everything they know. What that does is devalue the word "transphobic" so that it applies to everyone in some way except the most extremist purveyors of the ideology.

Saying trans women are men is transphobia 101. Just look what happened when the gender critical women hijacked the LGBTQ march in London.

Saying TWAM pretty much kills any chance of your view being heard and accepted outside gender critical circles, however right it is. That's why Martina, Paula Radcliffe and others are able to engage respectfully and any accusations of transphobia are hollow to people watching their threads - the people you want to influence.

I am not doing the "what is a women" thing on this thread. If you want to start a thread on the topic I'll reluctantly engage, but I suspect we'll be retreading old ground. Also, an extended take my view on the subject is probably pretty worthless to people on this forum. I've been told this multiple times by you and others..
.

I would major on the violent and threatening language of fight and war: threatening violence against women is never a good look.

I would suggest that the word others and dehumanises women. Whether they agree with gc way of thinking it is dangerous to give potential abusers a socially approved way to target women.

DadJoke Yes, I am aware of how the term 'phobia' is generally used, but interesting how you claim you don't want to mansplain/threadcrap whilst doing just that, maintaining the largest word-count and declaring to everyone your opinions which were not asked for to boot... To define women - ourselves - by our use of scientific facts does not imply transphobia in terms of projecting any hatred whatsoever to transpeople - and many who agree with us ARE trans people and get called 'truscum'. The term is used against GC feminists, but also anyone who dares question TWAW, I also have some examples of this.

DadJoke I don't agree with your view on "gender", but as much as I hate the idea that women have to "be nice" and not point out that transwomen are biologically male in order to be listened to, you are correct in saying that this is what it takes. I simply want to point out to the organisers of this event that the term TERF is primarily used as a slur and an insult against women, and that if it ever did have a use as a neutral description, it is not used in thatway any more, and it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Abuseofpower has given me some good material here and I will be using some of the arguments from Deborah Cameron too.