Complaining about an "anti-TERF" workshop at YIWW - help please!

[GraceMarks]

There was a thread on here a while back about a workshop that was being run as part of York International Women's Week called "Why we fight the TERF wars". I'm planning to write to the YIWW organising committee and complain about its inclusion, but I need to do it in such a way that explains why the word t**f is offensive and anti-women without trying to get into the whole "TWAW" debate. The people who run this thing are ultra-woke and anything I say that could be interpreted as transphobic (i.e. pretty much anything other than wholesale agreement with their ideology) will only result in my complaint being ignored.

I have been trying to find the details of the ruling by a judge that t**f is a misogynistic slur, but I can't for the life of me remember in what context it came up. Was it in the civil case against Miranda Yardley? Can anyone point me towards it?

I don't think the "TERF is a slur" website would be especially helpful, as I've noticed screenshots on there recently which seem to suggest that some TRAs see it as a badge of honour to be included...

You could point out that, as people here have said, that it is a word often coupled with threats of violence and so liberally applied as to become a way to legitimise violence against women and girls who have any kind of alternate thoughts or opinions about this issue.

One does not have to actually believe in excluding trans women to be called one. Many "terfs" (so-called) believe that transsexual women should be welcome in female space (for example) because they experience sexism in the world, but do not believe that self-ID is a good idea because then males who id as women but look like men and do not experience any disadvantage from sexism would be allowed.

There are also people branded "TERFs" who believe in including trans-masculine and "non-binary" females in female space (I'd wager most would actually).

So it is a mostly inaccurate term applied to mostly women of a variety of views, which nuanced arguments and it is very much tied to threats and violence.

Additionally, people are called TERFs when they aren't even radical feminists.

So this terms is being misapplied, largely to women who have an opinion which is not the status quo opinion, or to men who support those women, and is used to encourage violence.

It is a sexist slur.

GraceMarks, you are sensible to separate the analysis of what's going on from the presentation of what this means to people "outside" this issue. Persuasion is an important part of this and "proving people wrong" doesn't always win the day.

Give them information to enable them to open their own eyes. Don't go grabbing for their eyelids.

OP I would just draw attention to the inflammatory nature of the word, quoting some violent threats such as the twitter examples above, and say that you're shocked that people who are so effective - usually- at rejecting oppression and simplistic hate words, would use it. Overkill on how great they are.

I can't see a way of explaining why it's insulting without saying that you don't think trans women are women, because it's an insult directed at women who don't think trans women are women.

If saying transwoman aren't women is transphobic then all doctors are transphobic, and all lawmakers. There are specific instructions in the equality act to reflect this.

However. You can easily talk about the issue without even mentioning it. Nic Williams does it all the time. She talks of bodies. Male bodies.

Thank you, everyone. I think I see a way forward with the wording of the complaint, although I'm still not convinced it will have any impact on people who have already made up their minds. But I can't let this insidious creep of derogatory, sexist language go unremarked upon in my own city, or see the organisation of so-called women's events be taken over by people who want to keep women like me out. It's been happening for a long time and I've been too much in fear of the consequences to do anything about it but I'm past caring now.

Well done GraceMarks. What you are doing is admirable and you're exclusion from these women's space is sad.

I think we need to look at clubbing together to start female-only events welcoming to all ages and beliefs.

The women's movement appears to have been co-opted. We need each other, young and old (I.e. older women are not alone in finding all this appalling). We can just start new spaces.

Yes, they'd be protested initially but if we just carried on doing it they'd get tired of protesting it in the end.

Need to crowdfund a pot of money for women who want to set up their own female-only spaces I think. I will put this on my list for "when I've extracted myself enough from harmful spaces" but maybe there are women out there who could do it sooner.

DadJoke it is a fairly indiscriminately used term these days, though. Anyone can be labelled a t**f, including men like Graham Linehan and trans women like Miranda, and it doesn't necessarily have to be because you disagree that TWAW. The problem is that once you have the label, anything you might say is irrelevant and you will be ignored. I suppose I wanted to try to get around that somehow, but perhaps it isn't possible. I'm very disheartened tbh.

I see this, yes. People are unfairly labelled as terfs and dismissed for any disagreement with the TRA party line. It works like "witch" in that sense.

Here is page after page of horrendous abuse directed at people who disagree with TRA ideology. Might be useful.

terfisaslur.com/

Only misogynists use the word t* but I don’t think you can say there was a “ruling” in the Yardley case. A comment was made but I think you’re overstating it to say it has any kind of relevant legal weight.

Stick to what the others on this thread have suggested.

yorkinternationalwomensweek.wordpress.com/2019-programme/

There actually seems some normal York people (as opposed to non binary students) involved in other workshops. Maybe they should be copied in. I don't think the Minster would be very impressed to realise it's event had been marketed alongside such hateful activity.

This though 👀👀👀

Funders.

Still women's studies eh? Is that allowed?

And York human rights city? Does that include the right of women to sex based protections?

I think you might get them on 'debate' - the 'human rights city' thing says it encourages debate around human rights. 'Terf' shuts down debate or conversation of any kind.

www.yorkhumanrights.org/
This is one of the funders, they look a sensible organisation with laudable aims. They should know how their funding was spent.

Likewise
www.york.ac.uk/womens-studies/staff/
The women's studies director is there. I'd copy in the vice chancellor too. They need to account for university money being spent in this way. Hey! Normal York women, you're te*fs.

I'd point out the use of such offensive language is escalating hostilities, is completely inappropriate, and counter productive

Thank you so much op for doing this. You're a

Katvon some of the organisers are very well-meaning people who just want to be "inclusive" and are probably unaware of all the furore around this sort of language. But recently there have been a few people of the sort who came to York for uni and then stayed on who have been pushing their way into women's groups and organisations and gradually making them more hostile towards GC feminists. Most of them aren't even trans, they're just women who, for some reason, want to shit all over their own rights. I will definitely be sure to include something about the human rights city!

Oh that's so very true Grace.

Thank you so much for trying to reach out to the sensible people, this sort of language should not be used.

This made me laugh. Come taste chocolate! Do drama! Burn a few witches te*fs

Katvon chocolate, coffee and immolation! Fun for all the family!

It seems that TERF has just become a term for anybody who does not believe Transwomen are women.

It would be well worth finding all the statistics that you can on how many women actually believe Transwomen are Women.

Thus point how out exactly how many women are being demonized by this nonsense.

Then ask them why such a huge number should be made to feel unwelcome

Its worth mentioning that Maria MacLachlan was assaulted by trans activists with banners declaring 'Kill All Terfs'.

This genuinely is hate speech, the words used by a violent minority who want to destroy freedom of speech.

Might be worth pointing out that this term is now applied to all those who believe that lesbians are female homosexuals.

That a sexual orientation includes and excludes people as potential sexual partners on the basis of those people's sex is neither prejudiced nor outdated, bigoted or transphobic.

And yet here we are.

If your sexual orientation means you exclude certain people as potential partners on the basis of their sex, you are officially a TERF. Although sexual orientation is a protected characteristic under the EqA, in this way homophobia has been legitimised under the guise of a rights movement.

No need to mention TWAW.

Transwomen are men. The clue is in the name, women can't be transwomen.

If stating reality and biology is transphobia then ok, so transphobia is no longer something wrong or to be worried about. Human right to freedom of belief. Actual facts matter. Women's rights matter.

Whatever names you call me, I won't be backing down on that. This is not about trying to persuade people to be inclusive, this is trying to enforce women's obedience to their own oppression. Fuck right off with that.

Good article by Amy Dyess here:
TERF Is Hate Speech and It’s Time to Condemn It
Go to the profile of Amy Dyess
Amy Dyess
Oct 25, 2018
For the most part, mainstream media and so-called LGBT organizations have chosen to ignore a specific demographic of the Me Too movement. “TERF” is a slur used to sexually harass, threaten, and silence lesbians. Instead of standing up for female homosexuals, “LGBT” orgs and media are persecuting lesbians and disguising it as social justice. The gaslighting is next level, but the majority of the world is starting to wake up to this injustice. Time’s Up!

TERF was initially used as an acronym that meant Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist, but the term has always been used to muzzle women from discussing our rights. For the past year and half, TERF has been widely used as homophobic hate speech aimed at all lesbians. That’s right… ALL lesbians.

You don’t have to be a radical feminist to be labeled a TERF. A lesbian can make it clear she believes trans people deserve human rights and respect, but she’s still a “TERF” because her sexual orientation has an innate boundary. That boundary is same-sex attraction for other adult human females. Lesbians are the only sexual orientation that excludes penis, and that makes us the most dangerous adversary to the patriarchy." (continues)

Extremists don’t believe women, chiefly lesbians, deserve boundaries. That’s what this issue is all about. They disguise their misogyny and homophobia as social justice in order to gain support from people who are misinformed. So-called “progressives” are openly oppressing and condemning the homosexual community, primarily the lesbian community.

The Economist has banned the use of “TERF” in articles and comments because the slur “may have started as a descriptive term but is now used to try to silence a vast swathe of opinions on trans issues, and sometimes to incite violence against women.” Unfortunately, too many journalists and sites have decided to do the opposite. Even editors are doubling down on their misogyny and homophobia. (continues)

Pink News shamefully tried to defend using the term TERF, but even they admitted it’s a slur. “It’s hard to disagree with the claim that TERF has assumed a negative connotation,” Pink News conceded, “but this has to do more with the nature of the beliefs defined by the word, than the word itself”

TERF is more than a slur. It’s hate speech, which is defined as “abusive or threatening speech or writing that expresses prejudice against a particular group, especially on the basis of race, religion, or sexual orientation.” A lesbian is a female homosexual, and it’s homophobic to state otherwise. Lesbians are under attack for being ourselves." (Coninues)

medium.com/@amydyess83/terf-is-hate-speech-and-its-time-to-condemn-it-6efc897ce407

medium.com/@amydyess83/terf-is-hate-speech-and-its-time-to-condemn-it-6efc897ce407

Spectator March 2018
Fear and loathing grips the gender debate
James Kirkup

(extract)
How did we get here? How can it be that in modern, democratic and free Britain in the early 21st Century, women are frightened to meet or talk about law, politics and society? Don’t we have institutions and, more important, social norms that say this shouldn’t happen, can’t happen? Shouldn’t this stuff get the attention and interest of politicians who are supposed to listen to all the different strands of public opinion, and ensure that everyone gets a chance to speak and be heard?

Bluntly, why the hell is no one in politics shouting from the rooftops about this stuff? We’re talking about people trying to put the frighteners on Mumsnetters, for goodness sake. In any other area of public life, politicians usually fall over themselves in their rush to speak up for middle-class working mothers. Yet the politicians who were desperate to talk biscuits at Mumsnet Towers are curiously silent about the intimidation that some women now report there.

If this was simply a story of a small number of nasty people online and – sometimes – on the street doing bad things to women who speak up about a political issue, I suspect this problem wouldn’t persist. The relevant legal and political authorities would indeed pay attention to that fear, and maybe even do something, even if that was just listening to those women, meeting them, answering their questions.

But that doesn’t seem to be happening. It’s because those women have been – quite successfully and even skilfully – demonised and stigmatised, put beyond the pale of civilised debate as those who question orthodoxy often are. They’ve been given a name, a name that means they’re bad people, people who should not speak and should not be heard. That name is “Terf,” which once meant “Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist” but now appears to stand in its own right as a term of abuse and dismissal alongside the other short, harsh words often used to question the worth and virtue of women.

And that small number of people who direct violence and abuse at “Terfs” are swimming in a larger sea of contempt and dismissal. Their conduct takes place in a social context where hostility to “Terfs” has become not just normal but even amusing, where there is no social cost to talking about and perhaps even inciting violence towards women who hold “unacceptable” views. Simply, some people, including people who would never themselves engage in that sort of violence, are doing things that make violent discourse and even violence look and feel OK. Sadly, they include journalists and politicians, people who parade their support for minority groups but speak about feminist women in terms they would never use about other people." (continues)

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/fear-and-loathing-grips-the-gender-debate/

It would be well worth finding all the statistics that you can on how many women actually believe Transwomen are Women.

There are several recently taken polls.

As I said to Dadjoke, it's most people, because most people don't make the random, undefined, stereotype based, arbitrary distinction he does between biological sex and "woman" gender. Then there are a small proportion of zealots who do believe that MTFs (however defined) are actually female. But most people are just being "nice" when they say they (broad Stonewall definition) are women. They don't actually believe it.