I didn't know how angry I was until a LibDem dared to drop a leaflet through the door

[beenandgoneandbackagain]

Title says it all really.

Man dropped leaflet on to mat whilst I was near the front door. So I picked it up, saw it was a LibDem one and walked out to catch up with him and made him take it back, saying I was disgusted with his party's attitude to women.

He didn't even know, and his response was to angrily tell me his wife is a feminist.

Obviously she is not aware that feminists are not welcome in the LibDems.

I told him to go and do some reading on the LibDem's view of women.

But the whole episode made me realise how angry I am about the current attack on women's sex-based rights.

Really, really, angry.

I was a member for many years. I wrote to them when I stopped my direct debit and explained my reasons. Didn't get a response. They recently asked me for money, I wrote to them again and pointed out that Lynne Featherstone doesn't want women like me in the party. No response.
They are hopeless, and about to be wiped off the electoral map.

The Lib-Dems have disappeared up their own fundament. It is all about the first principles of Liberalism - whereby anything goes and people's rights to do 'it' have to be protected. The trans woman's rights over-ride the rights and the safety of women and children. We should just all be more tolerant.

I know that there are perverts and paedophiles in all political parties, but the Liberals/ Dems have history.

round here, none of the local reps for any local party know what's going on. The sad thing is, I can see their puzzlement when it's explained to them but they seem to operate on a weird level....like having no clue what's going on in their own party

For anybody wanting some background, there's this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3496404-Message-from-Lynne-Featherstone-Lib-Dems

Let them feel your anger. Ask them if they agree that sex is politically and socially relevant. And if they say no, hit them with all the arguments on this board.

The Lib Dems have a frankly disgusting history when it comes to the safeguarding of children. Can they really afford to be complicit in another safeguarding disaster? Ask them.

I did something similar to our local Labour councillor the other week when he was doing the rounds of our neighbourhood.

He knocked my door to chat about local issues (namely the traffic lights in the high street not working and the dog fouling issue) but I hit him with an interrogation about Lilly Madigan and Labour's GRA approach.

To say he was shocked is an understatement. He'd never heard of Madigan.

It's baffling how LibDems have always positioned themselves as the 'evidence-based, critical thinkers in the middle', but on this they have lost the plot more than any other party.

round here, none of the local reps for any local party know what's going on. The sad thing is, I can see their puzzlement when it's explained to them but they seem to operate on a weird level....like having no clue what's going on in their own party confused

Local reps tend just to be the foot soldiers - far away from the chains of command. The Trans rights movement has targeted the power bases in all of the structures. It is all top down.

I had that with a silly Labour canvasser recently. In Greenwich, just down the road from Deptford/Goldsmiths.

I explained. She claimed complete ignorance and rather snootily said "ah, so that is your thing". As if she was concerned about far more important things that protecting the rights of 50% of the population. Bloody labour, bloody LibDems. Pity the Tories don't bother to campaign in my constituency. Perhaps a day trip to Portsmouth beckons.

I explained. She claimed complete ignorance and rather snootily said "ah, so that is your thing".

You should have asked her what " her thing" was? I think many do dismiss GC views as being a minority specialist interest. Nothing of much importance. not when there is Brexit and racism and Islamophobia and climate change going on......

I was too cross.

Its the tribal politics thing. You are labour, that is your identity. She was canvassing at a railway station so was happily saying hello to locals and showing off that she was a good sort doing her bit. Me challenging her in front of her friends, had her signalling furiously that I was troublesome, was supposed to be nice, and that she had next to no interest in someone challenging policy that came from the great Labour mother-ship.

As a left-winger in the traditional sense, it’s troubling to me that voting Tory, as marginally the least insane of the parties, is looking like a plan.

marginally the least insane

Ain't that the truth.

I don't disagree, but I do wish people wouldn't yell at political leafleters and canvassers (I'm still a Lib Dem). We don't know everything. We're not professionals. In general, we're happy to engage - that's why we do it. But when we get yelled at, we withdraw.

That said, I think a lot of Lib Dems have no idea about the fight. I think, especially in Tory-facing constituencies, Lib Dems think of themselves as the tolerant party. Your local leafleters are trying to do right - they're just failing at this particular thing. So talk to them. Explain - using the easy-to-understand example of women in sport - how society can be tolerant and accepting, but still segregate by sex. Acknowledge that this truly sucks for transwomen who now lack a particular competitive sporting outlet, but highlight the purposes of sex-segregation. If you treat local activists as the enemy, they'll return the complement. There's no reason for us to be on different sides.

I guess this is going to sound like I'm minimising the crazy Lib Dem Twitter account and the madness of Lynne Featherstone's letter. And maybe I am. But I can't support the Tories. So here I am, stuck in the middle with my old friends, until student tuition fees, feminists, TIGers, and our own idiotic Whips Office finally kill us off.

So talk to them. Explain - using the easy-to-understand example of women in sport - how society can be tolerant and accepting...

We've tried that here in Liverpool with our local LIB -DEM councillors. Pointless! They keep going back to the first principles of Liberalism as they see it. Nothing else registers. We must be " kind".

In general, we're happy to engage - that's why we do it. But when we get yelled at, we withdraw.

Certainly no yelling from me. Just and expression of sadness that I would find it near impossible to vote for Labour with its current policies.

Is there training for canvassers? Are they taken through issues that are causing concern, and given some background into how party policy was arrived at.

Generally here LibDems are better. Certainly round our way they take notes on things like potholes and get things done. And the nice elderly man listened to my description of the LibDem LGBT++ Twitter feed and promised to look into it. The Labour woman seemed to suggest that it was the Labour way or the highway and there was next to no interest in anyone who questioned the party line. I don't know if she was typical, but feel that a lack of a listening culture is part of her party's problem.

Never has “The road to hell is paved with good intentions” seemed more relevant.

We must be " kind".

Could you ask them how it is 'kind' to girls to make sure that no matter how enthusiastic they are about sport, how talented, how hard they work, they will never be able to reach the top of their chosen sport if men are allowed to compete against them?

Do they have a different definition of 'kind' that I'm not aware of?

The constituency in which I live has always been evenly divided along Conservative/LibDem lines. It's always a straight fight between them while Labour has struggled in the past to get its deposit back. However, in 2017, the LibDems fielded a new, brave and stunning candidate - Helen Belcher - and Helen Belcher's leaflets spoke almost exclusively of Helen Belcher's TR activism, with only a passing (and meaningless) reference to the constituency itself. It resonated so much with voters here that the LibDems dropped vote share and the Conservative vote could have been weighed rather than counted. I'm guessing that LDHQ blamed Brexit.

I don't disagree, but I do wish people wouldn't yell at political leafleters and canvassers (I'm still a Lib Dem). We don't know everything. We're not professionals. In general, we're happy to engage - that's why we do it. But when we get yelled at, we withdraw.

As a fellow leafleter, I have to agree. I would also add that there is a big disconnect between local and national level politics. The Lib Dems round here don't stand a chance of winning the seat in a GE, but we have a strong local presence and the local ward has a LD town/district and county councillor. We are very much focussed on local issues and do a lot of work in those areas. That is not to say I agree with the national position on trans rights, but I agree with PP that it is a top-level issue and doesn't filter down much to local governance level.

It is the national party that needs to be influenced about this. Local party members and even councillors etc tend to be much more focussed on local issues - housing, public services etc.

Needmoresleep there's not a lot of training. Your first time out, you'd be paired with someone experienced. You might get a training session at party conference if you go. In terms of the issues, Dippy is right. For local elections, we talk about local issues - bins and council tax, highways and schools. For the General you might brainstorm as ward level activists - talk about what's coming up in the press etc. We sometimes go over some local political 'history'. But that's about it. We join because we support a broad platform. We are active because we want to make a difference locally. Sometimes that means we're knowledgeble and thoughtful - sometimes not!

Dippy and leaf, do you have any way of providing feedback to your higher-ups about the feedback from your leafletting?

And how can you influence the national party?

To me the wholesale redefinition of women as a sex class is a bit more important than potholes.

I berated the Lib Dem councillor (seeking re-election) for the Lib Dems hypocrisy in the council chamber: patting themselves on the back about distributing sanitary products to schools as part of their period poverty project, while at the same time expecting ALL girls to suffer the indignity of mixed sex toilets.

I finished with: "I am campaigning against you and the LibDems with every bone in my body".

Direct feedback, not really, but I get sent surveys on national policy which are sent out to all members where I put my tuppence ha'penny worth.

Talk to them?

I cant. They have me blocked on Twitter, even though I have never once spoke to them.

Thanks for replying, Dippy, that's interesting.