I didn't know how angry I was until a LibDem dared to drop a leaflet through the door

[beenandgoneandbackagain]

Title says it all really.

Man dropped leaflet on to mat whilst I was near the front door. So I picked it up, saw it was a LibDem one and walked out to catch up with him and made him take it back, saying I was disgusted with his party's attitude to women.

He didn't even know, and his response was to angrily tell me his wife is a feminist.

Obviously she is not aware that feminists are not welcome in the LibDems.

I told him to go and do some reading on the LibDem's view of women.

But the whole episode made me realise how angry I am about the current attack on women's sex-based rights.

Really, really, angry.

I did similar when a Labour rep knocked recently. She had absolutely no idea. I was extremely thankful for this board as I was able to explain to her what was going on and how I wouldn’t be able to vote for people intent on silencing me. She was rightly horrified and said she would be reading up on it and reporting back to the rest of the women as she thought they also didn’t know.

I too am angry.

Do rant at people who deliver leaflets.

The LDs rely on them. If they suddenly withdraw Labour they might start listening.

RedToothBrush - I agree with so much of what you write on this board, and on this subject but I’m sad to see you suggest that leaflet deliverers should be yelled at to the point where they feel they can’t do it any more.

The reason I give up my spare time to canvass and deliver leaflets is to make sure that my neighbours have a credible alternative to the Tories to vote for at each election. If people are going to feel too intimidated to do that, what will be the result? By all means, talk to every Lib Dem you encounter about why you’re not voting for them, but there’s no need to be aggressive.

My own political experience combined with the Brexit shitshow has made me realise how fragile our democracy is. Our system concentrates so much power in the hands of a single person that without a strong opposition, they have virtually no restraint. We are much closer to authoritarianism than most people think. But strong opposition is rooted in widespread political activism, in every town and Borough, to make sure that government at all levels is held accountable.

And i’ve personally experienced how the rich and powerful try to scare ordinary people away from political activism because they don’t want to be challenged. It’s horrible but it works. People with busy jobs and mortgages to pay don’t want the hassle of dealing with abuse, so choose not to get involved.

Please don’t be the person that suppresses political activism through intimidation - we’re all harmed when that happens. I’m not happy about my party’s stance on trans activism but i’ve got other reasons to want them to be successful and nobody’s going to bully me out of campaigning for them.

I don’t see anyone suggesting intimidation of leafletters? Just telling them why we object to their party’s policies due to the impact on women and girls.

RedToothBrush suggested that we should “rant” at leafletters and then said that the party would start to listen if they withdrew their labour. I interpreted that as intimidating people into giving up political activism.

By all means, TELL people why you won’t vote for their party if they knock on your door. But don’t bully ordinary people out of politics.

Hear, hear Treats!

The political system is far from perfect, but our participation is vital.

And in that I include talking to canvassers about why you disagree with their party, by the way. But it needs to be a conversation. Probably ongoing...

Doobigetta suppose that happens though. Suppose the parties which are currently doing a bad job on this issue are annihilated... That leaves us with the Conservative Party - the austerity-loving, hostile-environment-inventing, ERG Tories.

FPTP pushes us towards a two-party state. So every issue is 'owned' by one or the other. If we annihilate the Left, what remains is the Centre-Right versus the Far Right. What we should be pushing for is electoral reform. What we have is an imperfect system - but I maintain that the existing Lib Dems and Labour, for all their faults are better for the country than the Tories.

So, yes, I am holding up the Lib Dems - with Aimee Challoner and Lynne Featherstone and Layla Moran. It's my political home. I'm anti-authoritarian. It's the only place for me, until (as I said upthread) we finally pass over (into Mandyland ). I think, on the whole, I'm doing more good for more people by being active in the political system we have than I would in railing at it from the outside. I don't imagine we're all so very, very far apart here - we're mostly just choosing different methods.

You can rant politely and calmly.

I do on here. Most days. At length.

Leaflet deliverers are largely uniformed on this subject. I don't see where I suggested intimidation or aggressiveness. Just getting the point off your own chest about the subject in an impassioned way.

It says a lot about political discourse atm that you assume that I mean screaming and shouting at leafletters.

It wasn’t the ranting point I was responding to. Rant away. It was the bit where you suggested that - following your rant - people would stop delivering leaflets for the Lib Dems. By all means, make your feelings clear. But don’t attempt to stop people engaging with politics.

If that isn’t what you meant then I apologise.

And maybe I’m over sensitive on that point because that IS what politics is about at the moment and I feel very strongly that it shouldn’t be.

I mean that if people are educated with the issue and the LDs continue this nonsense of if you believe this shit your are a terf and should leave the party, then they deserve to lose members and man power. And their own relevance and the party’s core power.

Being actively involved with politics does not mean you HAVE to be a member of the blues, reds or yellows.

There is increasing numbers of local parties springing up because of the inadequacy of the nationals.

It's partys taking the electorate for granted that's part of the issue here.

I see many ways to retain involvement in politics without having to deliver party leaflets.

Every LD I've spoken to has been horrified by what's happening in their own party. It's a symptom of wider issues within the LDs tbh that the leadership are unwilling to address.

I personally feel all parties need a massive kick up the arse on this front.

I understand. Apologies for reading something into your post that wasn’t there.

It has been a huge conflict for me. I absolutely stand with biological women and see the dangers in the stand that some members of the Lib Dems have taken on this issue. I have wondered whether I could continue to campaign for them.

But I say “some members” because - as multiple posters on this thread have testified - the vast majority of members don’t know anything about it. There’s a trans movement which has tried to co opt the Lib Dems but has been - from an insiders’ point of view - only partially successful. There are one or two people who are passionately pro trans rights and present that as being the position of the LDs. There are a wider group of people who are (rightly imo) proud of our legacy on equal rights, and see the trans agenda as a way of continuing that legacy.

But the vast majority of ordinary members are not engaging with the issue. It’s not being taken up as a ‘cause’ that unites us all and we can get behind. And I think that that’s because a lot of people have doubts about the party line, which can’t currently be discussed.

The rhetoric at the moment is too divisive - if you don’t defend trans women’s right to every female segregated space, you’re a transphobe - but I think it will evolve eventually into a more moderate policy that greater numbers of the party will feel able to get behind. I think prisons and sport are giving people cause for reflection, and I certainly see far less trans activism on the Lib Dem circuit than I did a few months ago.

So your ‘rant’ strategy is absolutely working

This from Paddick made me want to throw up. 'Condolences' check, appropriating for his own purposes check, 'forgetting' and minimising misogyny which is a massive, massive part of terrorism, yup check again.

Well, Lynne Featherstone said she didn't want people like me in the party (those with an inability to believe six impossible things before breakfast), so I've stopped leaflet-dropping.

I’m turning into my grandma and my mum - I gleefully roll up my sleeves when I am stopped in the street by political party members (‘how are you today?’), when political activists knock at my door (‘so will you be voting for the xx party?’), or when a chugger for amnesty comes at me when I’m going to work (hiyaaaaa!!!! Do you care about xyz?).