New, confused and don’t know where to start

[Skittlesss]

Hi everyone

I used to think feminists were all about wanting women to be treated better than men and I never used to understand.

I know now that was wrong.

I don’t know if it’s because I’m older, wiser and have a daughter now... or what. I think part of it was a conversation I had on here (on my old username before the recent security breach thing) about trans and people opened my eyes to trans-age and the men who “ID” as women in order to attack them... well I think that was a bit of a turning point.

Now I have been thinking a lot and I think I need to know more about feminism. I don’t think it’s about being treated better than men, I think it’s about being treated equally. I work in a male-dominated environment and see it there a lot.

I don’t know where to start learning more. Can anyone point me in the right direction to any “starter” information, please?

Thanks for reading.

Welcome

I think this thread is good www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

For me feminism is definitely all about being treated equality. I've found these boards very interesting. Lots of perspectives. One big sisterhood. X

Have you seen Chimamanda Adichie's Ted talk? 'We should all be feminists'

Thanks Kat. I will have a look now.

Super - no, but I will google it and have a look.

I feel ashamed that I’m only just opening my eyes now.

There is some good discussion on this thread that might help a bit....

It may seem a bit quirky and random, but one fact I find illuminating and might inform a novice feminist is that 96% of homicides worldwide are committed by men as well as nearly all sex offences. If you think about that for a bit and consider why that might be, what it means and what effect it has on women, you're bound to gain some feminist insights.

Men as a sex assume they have rights and entitlements over women as a sex. Although few men are rapists and murderers, the fact that nearly all of them are men affects how women navigate the world.

Prawn - not random at all in fact I have noticed it as well. I work for the Police and out of the thousands of cases I have dealt with I have only had a handful of women as the Defendant.

Personally I think I was always a self confident strong woman, brought up in a household of strong women. Lots of things never occurred to me before arriving on these boards.
I don't always agree, but I always get food for thought.

I'm glad it was a helpful thought, Skittlesss. I sometimes come at things from an unusual angle and worry they'll seem odd. But if you work for the police you'll be all too familiar with sex differences in crime.

The way men treat women is disgusting. I see the crimes they commit against them and then the way they turn things around to make the woman drop charges... and the way the Defendant treats the female officers or even the way her male colleagues treat her with their mansplaining and assumptions that she will look after the kids whilst the big men lock the bad guy up.

Sorry, I’m just feeling a little anger when I start to think about the world at times. Even things like posters about domestic violence subtly implying that the woman could avoid situations. WTF?!

When you try and have feminist discussions with the general population you end up bring the recipient of so much gaslighting.

"Not all men are like that"
-yes, that wasn't what I was saying

"You are man-hating"

• No, obviously I don't hate men I'm just recognising a pattern

"Women do it too, here's one example"
Yes, obviously sometimes women do but it's not common

"Women just prefer to... Eg work in low paid jobs, stay at home parenting"
No, it's not at simple as that

"You are a bigot"
No I just think women have the right to have women-only spaces

"You are a bigot"
No I just think women means adult human female

"You are a bigot"
No I just think women don't necessarily need to centre what men want in femist discourse otherwise what's the point in feminism?

It's not easy love. Welcome.

I found Kat Banyard's 'The Equality Illusion' an eye-opening introduction to many issues.

Victim blaming is rage inducing

Check out wecantconsenttothis.uk

Female victims of murder have been considered "consenting" to their own murder at the hands of men.
You cannot find more proof of patriarchy than this.

Yep.

And what is incredibly depressing is how unfeminist Mumsnet is in general. I am constantly surprised at that- I sill expect a huge community of mostly women to get it, and every time they don’t I am disappointed again.

*"You are man-hating"

• No, obviously I don't hate men I'm just recognising a pattern*

Thanks for this one! I’ve had the you hate men thrown at me a lot.

“We can’t consent to this” - truly awful. So many coming up with the “sex game gone wrong” excuse. As though women are just a hole to screw until you kill them and that’s ok because the woman consents to it.

When you try and have feminist discussions with the general population you end up bring the recipient of so much gaslighting

I had one recently with a teacher and ended up feeling like I'd been thrown off a bridge. Completely condescended to by a woman young enough to be my daughter.

Sorry, I’m just feeling a little anger when I start to think about the world at times
That's what happens when the scales start to fall.....

I would recommend Jessica Eatons blog. And Julie Bindel and Glosswitch. And Man who has it all.

Hi OP, I've always described myself as a feminist but didn't realise there were different schools of feminist thinking. I was bought up on a diet of liberal feminism and often felt like I must be a bad feminist because I didn't agree with a lot of the ideas about how female empowerment is achieved.

Anyway the whole self ID issue has given me an introduction to radical feminism which feels like a much better fit. Women are now front and centre in my feminism and I no longer worry about hurting men's feelings with facts or truth. I think Andrea Dworkin described herself as a feminist but not the fun kind and I like that.

I've used lots of the excellent information from posters here as a starting point for further research. I found Feminist Current (Canadian feminist website) really useful and there is also a gender critical sub Reddit with a "reading list", I'll see if I can find the link.

I had no idea that these boards existed on MN but I'm so glad I found them, I'm no longer a solo bolshy, awkward, woman; I have a tribe. Thank you to all the amazing women posting here.

Found it!

www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/wiki/resources

I was bought up on a diet of liberal feminism
AKA Notreal feminism

OP you'll come across all sorts of liberal "feminist" ideas which you need to be wary of, you can usually recognise them for being just a bit too man-appeaing

Eg
"Prostitution is empowering for women"
A type of slur is created for women who disagree here, who see that prostitution is another form of oppression. The "SWERF" (Sex worker exclusionary radical feminist)
So look out for that one

"Any choice is a feminist choice if it's the choice of a woman"
Most actual feminists can see through that one.

Liberal feminists seem to mainly fall into the TWAW camp too. After 2 seconds thought you can move swiftly past that.

I guess I'm a radical feminist but still feel uncomfortable with the label because of the negative connotations so just prefer "feminist".

Another one is “what happened to the sisterhood- I thought feminism was about supporting other women. Who needs men when women tear each other down?” As if feminism was about “You go, girl!”ing anything any other women does.

Being a feminist is hard!

I feel ashamed that I’m only just opening my eyes now

Me too. But we are here now. And we can't be the only ones on femchat who are late to the party.

I feel so at home here; this is a place of sanity.

Thanks - I will definitely check those out

I can’t believe how anyone could see prostitution as empowering sounds like some crap that came from a man to justify yet another way they are superior.