New rule for trans troops in USA, stick to your birth sex or leave

[happydappy2]

New York Times, March 13, reported that trans people can enlist & serve but must use the uniforms, pronouns & sleeping/bathroom facilities for their biological sex. They will not be allowed to serve if they have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria. Apologies I can’t link the article but it is interesting.....

It would be interesting to see what angle that was written from, as a way of protecting them and getting them help for their gender dysphoria or basically saying they need to stick to the rules, enrol as a man, work as a man...

In a lot of ways I think it's fair enough but many will say that it denies trans people their human rights.

I'd need to read more into this to understand it better.

Well previously female troops were told they shouldn’t even move to cover up if they were naked after a shower and a man comes in, in case he’s actually a trans woman and they hurt his feelings.

So this is a step in the right direction IMO

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_personnel_in_the_United_States_military

Social media can make Trans Rights Activism sound like one movement. But in many ways, the fight plays out differently in different places. Basic anti-discrimination laws (for housing, employment, etc.) are not consistent throughout the United States (each state makes its own laws, plus the federal government for overarching things like the military). And the military is a really big deal, because it's one of the only ways that poor 18 year olds can get an education and life-long healthcare. Here in Britain, I think most people don't understand how different things are over there.

People with all sorts of diagnoses can’t enlist.

The military isn’t a social welfare program. Everyone must be potentially deployable when they enter. Otherwise the military would be creating two classes: those who may be killed and those who definitely won’t be. That is completely contrary to its organizing premise and the reason certain benefits are granted to enlisted in the first place: potential universal sacrifice.

There is a tremendous rape problem in the US , with over 1/3 of female troops sexually assaulted while serving. They matter too.

One thing the military is NOT, is individualist. Entering the military of necessity means subordinating individuality to the whole. The fact is, in joining the US military, you sign away your Constitutional rights, including the right to free speech, and instead become governed by the Uniformed Code of Military Justice. So to speak of “rights” in the context of the US military makes no sense. Pronoun demands are absurd. In the hierarchy that is the military, it is especially absurd to place pronoun demands upon one’s superior officers. It is in fact insubordination.

I don’t think people understand how completely different military life is from civilian life. Especially in a globalized, imperialist force like the US military. I’m not saying I approve of US militarism; I don’t at all. I’m saying that it is both naive and self-indulgent to expect a massive military machine premised on hierarchy, dominance, and the mission of the whole over the needs of the individual to care one whit about gender identity and expression.

Ken Zucker, on twitter, has linked to the article, so it can be read there. It doesn’t explain WHY a person with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria cannot serve, which I find odd. But agree that women in the army should not have to shower, change, sleep next to biological males. No doubt there will be a huge legal challenge to this....

Well previously female troops were told they shouldn’t even move to cover up if they were naked after a shower and a man comes in, in case he’s actually a trans woman and they hurt his feelings

Glad you mentioned that- it was a peaking moment for me. Unbelievably horrible and misogynistic.

And the military is a really big deal, because it's one of the only ways that poor 18 year olds can get an education and life-long healthcare

You do have to be reasonably healthy, though. Medical problems and mental health issues can get you rejected (President bone spurs knows all about that )

'Well previously female troops were told they shouldn’t even move to cover up if they were naked after a shower and a man comes in, in case he’s actually a trans woman and they hurt his feelings.'

That is just mind bogglingly appalling.

I believe part of the issue is that the military is responsible for its troops’ healthcare and they don’t want military service being used as a way to get free gender reassignment surgery. Although it’s also a way to get free college tuition, healthcare for other things... so that’s flimsy.

Working in the NHS is obviously wildly different to working in the military. However I feel there is a similarity in so far as one has to submit to a certain discipline, "subordinating individuality to the whole".

I simply don't think there is room for individuality and identity politics in such organisations. Take Philip Bunce, who isn't even a trans woman in so far as he is happy to describe himself as a man whilst revelling in being able to be his "authentic self" on the days when he dons a dress. Imagine the geriatric consultant caring for your ageing parent who is in the early stages of dementia. One day a kindly man assesses your parent and chats and advises. Another day a simpering "female" bewigged and lipsticked rocks up to continue the ongoing care plan. How can your confused elderly compute that? And wouldn't you rather your doctor or your parent's doctor had their mind on the job rather than wondering if they shouldn't have worn the auburn wig, and perhaps a larger sized pair of tights? Thank God I haven't had to deal with this in my work place because I'm afraid my tolerance is low. Leave the fetish at home wherever you work doesn't seem like a big ask.

"It doesn’t explain WHY a person with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria cannot serve, which I find odd. "

How is it odd?

Check this list of disqualifying conditions

www.military.com/join-armed-forces/disqualifiers-medical-conditions.html

If you have a medical condition, the military doesn't want you.

As with sports and so forth, the military should be segregated via sex, not gender. There is no logical reason to separate based upon gender.

Trans people can still join. They are not being excluded.

Trans people can still join. They are not being excluded

Exactly.

People should check the list of conditions for context. Those with thyroid conditions, the majority of which are treated well enough not to impact someone’s life too drastically, may disqualify you. I have a thyroid problem and I can see why they’ve listed it. Other than the fact there’s a significant minority whose condition is difficult to keep stable, anyone with a thyroid condition could potentially develop an issue in extreme conditions and side effects can include mental health issues, extreme fatigue and more. Anything which has the potential to affect someone’s mental health, has to have strict rules or indeed disqualify you completely. It’s not supposed to be inclusive. Add to that the obvious issues with Male and females sharing spaces, and it seems entirely reasonable to me.

Why did they ask Pippa Bunce to do a twirl in that video clip? Would they have asked a person “identifying” as male to twirl? Would they have asked Philip on his non-Pippa days to twirl? No and No. and this is why gender stereotypes are harmful, “women” = pink and glitter and twirling. Well fuck that.

The British Army doesn't let you join if you have eczema!

apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join/can-i-join/medical#which-medical-conditions-will-stop-me-joining?

Eczema can be mild but it can be really life affecting. It can be exacerbated by things like heat. Some sufferers have time consuming regimes of creaming affected areas every day etc. Affected areas can develop infections. Wearing fatigues, carrying heavy kit for long periods could cause chaffing.

I can see it would be totally incompatible with living at Camp Bastion for example.
I would say it maybe should be assessed on a case by case basis but it seems a fair exclusion for all but the mildest.

Being physically and mentally well enough to join a particular workforce isn't confined to the military - you have to be designated 'fit to work' to become a teacher, for example.

That clip of Bunce is vomit inducing. Imagine a hospital consultant behaving like that. Thing is I can't. I don't associate that behaviour with a serious minded hard working lifestyle. It's as simple as that.

I know nothing about the us military but in the U.K. in the field they do not have separate facilities anyway and women and men meet the same standards so it wouldn't matter, however there's many reasons why you aren't fit to serve and this includes most mental health issues. It's the military not a welfare service and they need the best, I doubt many trans on medication could meet the criteria (but women mostly wear the same kit anyway dress uniform aside and the bigger issue is dd has had issues getting uniform that fits her bust properly.)

Eczema can be mild but it can be really life affecting.

As a forty-plus year sufferer, I am well aware of this.

Most of the military restrictions relate to medications or medical regimes required to keep conditions under control and that are incompatible with military life.

High dose steroids for serious eczema outbreaks, for instance. Or dietary methods of control not available on every tour of duty.

Apologies Lang. I misinterpreted your post.

LangCleg Same here. I haven’t had it badly for some time though, major dietary shifts probably why. But it’s rife in my family and my sister has such a bad problem, her hands get so bad she can’t use them without pain. You can get open wounds and everything.

Apologies Lang. I misinterpreted your post.

No worries!

Arrghhh

That pips bunce clip.

Why did I watch it? Why?