Eleanor Scott article, 'Did Mumsnet Just Hand Penny Mordaunt Her Arse?'

[R0wantrees]

'Did Mumsnet Just Hand Penny Mordaunt Her Arse?'
(extract)

“Don’t you worry about getting back to us, Penny dearest. Mumsnet only has ‘14 million unique users’ a month ... Just you sit tight and eventually get one of your minions to post some anodyne rhetoric about valuing diversity and it’ll all be fine.”
— Mumsnet poster, webchat with Penny Mordaunt 14/3/19 13.55pm

It takes a certain set of tools to turn a golden opportunity to engage with hundreds of thousands of women on International Women’s Day into an unmitigated PR disaster, and Penny Mordaunt MP has somehow managed to pull it off. I’ve met Penny Mordaunt a few times in Portsmouth over the years while I was on Council-related business, and she has always seemed perfectly likeable and pleasant. But future Prime Minister material? Not unless courting disaster is now seen as prerequisite rather than unfortunate happenstance." (continues)

concludes:
"The Mumsnetters who had asked their questions in such detail, and with such courtesy - posters have to abide by Mumsnet’s fairly stringent ‘Talk Guidlines’ - were left disappointed and, frankly, pissed off, especially regarding the unanswered points about children’s safeguarding. But they weren’t leaving the webchat meekly. ‘Disappointed but not surprised’ wrote one poster. ‘Completely disingenuous’ wrote another. Of her apparent ignorance around the issues raised concerning children’s safeguarding, a poster wrote, more in sadness than anger, ‘This is unforgiveable. You were given all the information. All of it. Spoonfed it. You haven’t bloody well read it.’ And one of the most damning comments so far: ‘Either Penny, or Penny’s SPADs are not up to par on the reports coming out of the Tavistock’. (Click here if you want to read the Mail’s report about the potentially brewing scandal, or here for a BBC snippet. It’s worth digging deeper if you’re interested.)

And finally, can the Minister for Women even define what is a woman? On this showing, the answer would seem to be No. The actual Minister for Woman apparently doesn’t ‘get it’, doesn’t want to ‘get it’, and seemingly can’t be bothered to ‘get it’. That’s a lot of women’s votes that have just been lost, whichever way you look at it. Post-modern, philosophical ideologies of feelings, and misunderstandings of the difference between sex and gender, should never, ever compromise the safeguarding of children. People who raise red flags about safeguarding deserve to be taken seriously and to have their voices heard. If we’ve we’ve learned nothing else during the past decade, surely to God we’ve learned that."
eleanorscottarchaeology.com/els-blog/2019/3/14/the-day-that-mumsnet-took-down-penny-mordaunt-mp

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/3523984-International-Women-s-Day-Q-A-with-Penny-Mordaunt-MP-Secretary-of-State-for-International-Development-NOW-CLOSED-TO-NEW-QUESTIONS

Btw if anyone wants to ask me any questions about archaeology or my website or anything related to politics that I ever had dealings with, please do.

Do HQ normally close webchats after, when they are not live? Are they not the same as normal ones, where a follow up question is allowed? Would have thought the format would be the same really. Ask questions, they answer (eventually..in this case) the follow ups, and they answer those.

Seems there was some 'crossing of wires'

Wtf, sorry but the 'webchat' thread being closed smacks of wanting to brush the whole sorry affair under the carpet. A webchat involves dialogue, we were robbed.

A poster on that thread asked this and I'd like an answer too:

@MNHQ , is Penny taking follow up questions as per MN guidelines? (Though I suspect I know the answer given that the initial response is nearly a week late...)

@MNHQ ?

EleanorScott - I was very excited to realize this article was by a sister archaeologist whose work I know. Hopefully a lot of archaeologists find it difficult to ignore material conditions, even if they don’t speak out against the prevailing nonsense. Please carry on being a strong feminist voice, we need you.

This. But I'd be happier if Penny realised the impact her loss of interest in safeguarding women's and children's rights might well have before we get to the 'lessons must be learnt' stage years down the line.

So do I, VickyEadie so do I and I will fight my damned hardest to prevent that but when you look at the calibre of politician we are dealing with, the relentless tide of pro TRA propaganda directed at Government and institutions and the craven capitulation of said Government and institutions I know we will not be able to stop all of the harm this agenda will wreak, damage and harm has already happened and is continuing to happen.

On the subject of calibre of politicians I am aghast at the 'cock' story relating to Penny Morduant - behaving like a child in the playground shouting 'willy' and doing so in the place where this country is run from. Politics is a serious business it effects the lives of everyone, we need serious people not fools who think behaving as PM did is somehow funny. No wonder the general public view politics and politicians with contempt.

EleanorScott feel free to quote anything I have posted.

EleanorScott - I was very excited to realize this article was by a sister archaeologist whose work I know. Hopefully a lot of archaeologists find it difficult to ignore material conditions, even if they don’t speak out against the prevailing nonsense. Please carry on being a strong feminist voice, we need you

Hello, @iguanadonna

I think that archaeologists as scientists and anthropologists have a lot to say about these issues, and need to get on board with this.

I reviewed a book recently - Archaeologies of Gender and Violence (eds Matic & Jensen, 2017 Oxbow) for the Peace and Change journal. The book states in its editors' introduction that humans are gendered and sex is biological.

The editors also drew this from the wealth of contributions to the volume:

'Gender is a cultural, and culturally specific, categorisation system. By definition, "gender" refers to the cultural aspects of systematic difference, distinct from biological "sex" ... Specifically, we propose that gender is a categorisation system. Categorisation systems allow communities to order the confusing diversity of the world into a few categories and thus simplify complex interactions'.

Example after example follow, from prehistory through antiquity and to later periods, and across the Old and New Worlds.

The past is a foreign country from which we divorce ourselves at our peril.

It looks as though closing web chats is now the procedure once they are finished. Today's Brexit web chat was closed, too, and so was Anna Soubry's.

would sign a petition calling for her resignation.

And then I would apply for her job. That's how it works, right?

I believe the accepted procedure is the PM gives the job to whoever puts their hand up first.

It looks as though closing web chats is now the procedure once they are finished. Today's Brexit web chat was closed, too, and so was Anna Soubry's.

Well they would have to be, or closing just this one would stand out a mile.

I have a faint and cynical hope that maybe HQ were asked to take this off FWR which after all is where a lot of women and journalists and others hang out, as it was not good publicity. Which would imply that Ms Mordaunt is actually aware of how very angry women here are with her, and how very easy it is to pull her responses apart and show the flaws in them.

That would be a happier thought than that she is oblivious.

Well Shes not oblivious, she just doesn't care, in 8 years time when all this has has climaxed and damages are being paid out it won't be her problem.
It's how they all think.

We, as in we the public, are meaningless when it comes to climbing ladders of power, we always were and always will be.

ArcheryAnnie Fri 15-Mar-19 00:40:25

(And thank you, Dr. Scott.)

Ah bless you, I've read your posts on here for a long time - they're really good.

Tweets from AWA about they told us there was no such thing as sex based rights, and that self ID had happened long ago, and now Penny has formally confirmed it.

In fact Mordaunt talks at length about sex based rights and protecting them. They just say in addition that anyone can be any sex, which renders the whole point of sex based rights pointless.

So yes, against law and despite repeated blatant lies from the government, apparently the AWA are right.

Would someone please pick that up and put it in the national press? The country ought to be let in on this secret that women no longer exist, sex based rights still exist in law but not actually in practice but politicians haven't dared tell anyone. Or put it into manifestos and let people vote on it, or anything democratic like that. Or thought about what happens when they write laws saying men are women, and women say no.

I'm catching up, long day - having read the first paragraph Dr Scott I can say yes to part two please.

A lovely way to end the week with some proper Mumsnet wit and gumption.

Ready to sign that petition anytime x

Late to this thread so responding to your post of earlier today chickennugget.

It was in response to my question that Penny went off on her "what is a mother" tangent. I happen to be a lawyer.

I don't really understand what she is on about, and it was certainly irrelevant to the question I asked.

I think it's right to say that the presumption is that the woman who gestates a child is the mother (if, for example, she used a donor egg, she would still be the mother).

Adoption means that the adoptive mother acquires the legal status of mother and an adoption certificate is issued to evidence this.

An adopted child however retains their birth certificate AFAIK which gives the name of the birth mother.

All of this aside though, Penny's so called answer to my very carefully worded question was evasive at best and I'm getting more and more infuriated by it. Her comments on motherhood, which as I've said we're totally unrelated to the question I asked, were bizarre, and I quite understand why others on this thread, and the original thread, are offended by them.

I've done Meaningless Webchat II, and thank you very much for the encouragement to do it.

The link to it is here

"In the past week Penny Mordaunt MP, Secretary of State for International Development and Minister for Women & Equalities and former defence minister, performed (in the opinion of many Mumsnetters) one of the most abysmal Mumsnet webchats ever, now held in perpetuity in the influential website’s digital annals ... The focus of the ensuing disappointment and ire has understandably been on her apparent disregard for sex-based protections and rights for women, and the safeguardng of children of both sexes, and her odd comments about the meaning of ‘mother’. Additionally there remains another nugget buried deep in the motherlode of Mordaunt’s thought-mine of doom, which goes to the heart of her credibility.

"Turkey and the UK veto. Ring any bells? It led to headlines such as the Guardian’s ‘David Cameron suggests defence minister [Mordaunt] is lying over Turkey joining EU’."

Here's the link and thank you to @Helmetbymidnight for asking the important question(s).

The link to it is here

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3534954-Eleanor-Scott-article-Did-Mumsnet-Catch-Out-Penny-Mordaunt-Over-Turkey-Lies

But her reactions to other questions were equally unthought out...eg my one about the pensions robbery said nothing to acknowledge that women are not and have never been equal to men in terms of earning power, therefore our pensions are totally inadequate and unequal, and the age should never have been changed.
Another letter to woman's hour called for as they have been flagging up her interview as a podcast.perhaps directing Jenny and Jane Herrera for a quick look at how she and DB view women's sex protected rights

Here not Herera!

@Angryresister

I agree with you about the WASPI debacle, and the issues around that of differential earnings, inequitable responsibilities and the unequal notice periods given to the sexes regarding changes to the rules, all points which I feel that Mordaunt left unanswered (and which you were clearly asking about).

I've said on the other thread that @R0wantrees kindly started that every one of Mordaunt's answers probably deserves an article of its own.

I would be so thrilled if one of the extraordinarily talented and insightful women on here would think about starting an actual feminist party to stand in some key seats such as Leeds Hull etc on an independent platform. I believe any of you could do a better job.

She can't have thought about any of the questions because she's gone and set up an LGBT panel that seems to exclude the gender critical voice completely.

www.gov.uk/government/news/government-appoints-first-national-adviser-for-lgbt-health

Angry I think the time has long gone to bother trying to do this through the political world. Its a done deal. We've been lied and lied and lied to. This is going to take grass roots resistance from the general public, beginning with making it clear to the general public what is involved, what is happening, that it's with the full blessing of Mordaunt and every political party, but they don't actually have the guts to say so or put it in a manifesto, and they've deliberately surrounded it with don't frighten the horses lies.

Like the 'protect single sex spaces' (but men can be any sex they choose)

Like 'we're having a consultation' (but the policy is already in place and by now reversible)

Like 'we have no plans to change the equality act' (but we've removed all meaning from the word 'sex' and we've spent years sneaking 'sex' as a protected category out and replacing it with 'gender', hence women no longer protected but 'women' are.)

This is as we know, going to end in scandal, uproar and an utter fucking mess with a furious general public and it's going to get extremely ugly. We warned them. As Mordaunt shows, they know exactly that there are major safeguarding risks to women and children, that this spits in the face of equality for women, that they are erasing and enabling the oppression of half their voters. Mordaunt refuses to acknowledge or talk about those issues because Mordaunt has no answers, knows damn well it's wrong, but intends to do it anyway. Women are collateral damage, acceptable loss to the greater cause.

However all this depends on women accepting it and going along with it. Or moaning a bit and writing polite letters and trying to form nice political parties to explain.

As Lundy Bancroft often says about abusive misogynists and people with personality disorders: it isn't that you haven't explained well enough, you need to stop assuming that if they just understood they'd realise the problem.

By now reversible - obviously Irreversible.

Sorry, too disgusted with the minister to type coherently.

I think we are fast approaching the time when civil unrest is a viable option here.