Why aren’t male athletes standing with their female counterparts?

[OVAgroundWOMBlingfree]

We have seen more and more female athletes come out to discuss TW in female sports and the matter of fairness and so far the only male athlete I have seen come out in support is Daley Thompson (good on him).

Where is the usually mouthy crisp snatcher on this matter?
Why aren’t they supporting their fellow sportspeople?

The silence is deafening.

Men aren't standing up because they would have to acknowledge that transwomen are men.

They would have to own up to gaslighting women with lies, spin and fake science,

Worse still, they would have to admit that women were right all along - you can't change sex and gender identity is bullshit.

And this IS an issue that male sport should own, instead of shunting it to the women.

Amen. It's men causing problems in women's sports. And now that the men have been made aware of the problem, they should do more than just say "you go girls, we support you saying what needs to be said".

andyoldlabour is that a cycling forum that has a fairly vocal TW on it? I don’t post there any more because of that person. They’ve completely hijacked the feminist discussion thread there and their account of demanding to be searched by a biological female in an airport security queue was deeply disturbing. For someone who apparently so desperately wants to be a woman, they sure do hate us.

Fed up with people on that forum not sticking up and being excellent to people who don’t share that view. Any other kind of crap gets called out pretty quickly, but that person gets a pass.

An MN Feminism chat thread calls for support from male sportspeople about women's sport being protected from transwomen....

Matthew Pinsent makes a supportive tweet....

MN feminism chatters response = "Christ Pinsent - what the fuck was that?"

Still wondering why more sportsmen aren't speaking up?

Very few men step up and acknowledge that some members of their sex let them down.

They would rather take the ‘not all men’ line and turn away.

No, ‘not all men’ but the ones that do let the rest of you down.

I agree many men aren’t aware of how itbis for women. And they aren’t interested in finding out. So men cause problems for women, women need to sort it out, men don’t let them. Sport, work, politics, harassment. It’s all the same shit.

It wasn’t supportive, it was a pat on the head.

Yes we are still wondering, because his half hearted support is not nearly enough. It shows he agrees but is too cowardly to really speak up.
Honestly, the men are pathetic on this.

Matthew Pinsent makes a supportive tweet....

So, Louise, what do you think is so tricky about this issue.

Do elaborate.

oh dear, Louise, so you think women should be grateful for whatever crumbs men throw them?

Pinsent is a bloody Olympic gold medal winner. That tweet was pathetic from someone like him.

No, I think that if you ask for people to be supportive, and then they are, the response given here is telling.

What some of you appear to want is for them to be supportive using your words or positions on the issues, not their own. That's called denying people agency.

Tricky issue? The tricky bit, IMO is finding a way for everyone, including TW to compete that is fair. Are there enough such people competing at a level to have their own races, that would seem to resolve things but my answer is currently, not yet.

Tricky issue? The tricky bit, IMO is finding a way for everyone, including TW to compete that is fair.

I think it's already been suggested that we could have women's events (just for women), and open events - which would be open to anyone who wanted to enter them - men, women, transmen, transwomen.

What some of you appear to want is for them to be supportive using your words or positions on the issues, not their own. That's called denying people agency.

Agency? Agency?! Stuff and nonsense.

Man can say whatever he likes. He says feeble thing. Women, whose spaces, services and sports are under attack, point out that man's words were feeble. Man still has agency to say whatever he likes. Women still (fucking just, the way we're going) have the agency to respond however they like.

Agency. FFS.

What would you prefer? We say thank you, oh lordly one, for bestowing upon us two of your very precious words?

Yeah, no.

I'm a bit surprised and slightly disappointed that Andy Murray hasn't come to Martina's defence. There's no way he doesn't get this. That said I do appreciate his priorities are with his recovery/future of his career at the moment!

Nothing tricky about it. Trans people can participate in sports and compete in their sex categories and/or mixed categories just like anyone else. I don't think it's reasonable to ask sports associations to make special arrangements for people who alter their bodies. There are countless other conditions that prevent people from becoming top athletes. What's so special about people with gender dysphoria? (The non-dysphoric pisstakers shouldn't even be in the equation.)

Men aren't standing up because they would have to acknowledge that transwomen are men.

Most men already think transwomen are men.

I don't feel inspired by Pinsent's response but at least it IS a response. Better that than nothing.

Rowing as a power sport with a big Olympics presence is one of the most obvious areas where sex really matters.

I'd actually be keen to hear from athletes in sports which are genuinely mixed like the horse sports which should be super welcoming to trans competitors- no barriers there. It would be supportive if they said that.

Tricky issue? The tricky bit, IMO is finding a way for everyone, including TW to compete that is fair. Are there enough such people competing at a level to have their own races, that would seem to resolve things but my answer is currently, not yet.

So not fricking tricky at all then, is it?

Men, however they identify, should not be competing in women sports.

It's really, really basic.

As to what to do with those men, that's not women's problem.

'Tricky' is just a euphemism for I don't want to get caught out saying something that someone can tell me off for.

Because that's far, far more important than the entirety of women's sports.

athletes in sports which are genuinely mixed like the horse sports which should be super welcoming to trans competitors

There's at least one jockey who has transitioned, and good luck to them (though I kind of hope it's without 'bottom surgery' as I just don't want to contemplate what a few rounds over the jumps would do to your stitches -- took me years after childbirth to think about getting on a saddle).

My DP was a world champion in his youth in martial arts. He’s been very open to my discussions about these issues and as an athlete in an area where physical strength is in issue, totally gets it. I’ve asked him to tweet about it ( he doesn’t really use Twitter ) and today he has...😀

not quite what the OP had in mind but over in the US on letsrun.com (THE message for track & field and all things running) there's been a lot of discussion on this issue. Almost entirely critical of trans women taking part in women's sport

Martina 1
www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9165453

Martina 2
www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9276272

Sharron Davies
www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9275053

Mckinon
www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9059713

Andrea Yearwood
www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8141102

Trans girl at state meet
www.ktuu.com/content/news/Congro-381191581.html

It's actually making me really quite angry watching men like Lineker going on twitter posting shite and completing ignoring women, despite their attention having been drawn to it by tweets numerous times.

Instead sharing stuff men ask him to.

So spineless.

I agree SonicVersusGynaephobia, it's a huge, huge show up.

It really is very revealing indeed.

Because men don't care about women.

In Gary Lineker's case it's because he cares about his pay packet. Organisations are desperate to appear woke and if GL incurs the wrath of a very vocal lobby then that's his Walker's Crisps megabucks down the drain, and his very lucrative seat at the BBC possibly whipped out from under him.

Can we assume that people who have stayed silent are more likely to be GC than buy into the TRA ideology? So people fear the wrath of women in the same way they fear the wrath of the trans lobby? I don’t think they do. I imagine GC people more likely to stay silent.