Should this LGBT club be going behind parents backs?

[steppemum]

dd is 14 and gay. No problem.

I have just seen an email from her to a local teenagers LGBT club. It all looks OK, and in principle I wouldn't have any problem with her going along to it, but she wrote to them aged 13 (just had her birthday) and asked to join. They wrote to her and said you are welcome, this is where and when we meet and you are welcome to bring along a parent/friend. The club is open to kids aged 13-19

But, she was 13. No other activity that she goes to aged 13 is allowed to have her there without signed parental permission. I only saw this email as I get copies of her emails to my computer still.

While I have huge sympathy with 13 year olds strugglling with their sexuality and wanting to access a place liek this without their parents, I just feel really uncomfortable that at 13 they will welcome her to a group, meeting in town, in the early evening, (so finishes at 7:30) with no permission needed. It doesn't sit right with me.

AIBU?

One of the rules that is common to all the youth groups my kids are in is that adult leaders are not allowed to have the kids email addresses or have the kids on social media.

They all correspond via the parents email , even if it’s addressed to the child. Only the group official organisers has these email addresses, as they are covered by GDPR regulations.

The more I hear about this group OP, the worse it gets. The secret meet up between unknown adult and 13 year old child is a HUGE red flag.

Id be worried regardless of the purpose of the group.

Ha! The meet up scenario wa the same with ds too. They met in a cafe and dh went along too. Then they had a chat and a cuppa and walked to where the club is together.

While I appreciate PPs here have sincere concerns about safeguarding, try to consider that for some kids "Dad, I want to join.... a club.... can you sign the consent form" can feasibly end up in homophobic dad Googling the club, finding it's for LGB kids, and either assaulting the kid or throwing them out of the house. When I was a closeted teen being beaten up and/or thrown out were the two reactions I would've expected from my father - perhaps I would've been wrong, but I wasn't going to come out on the off-chance.

This is not the same as asking dad to sign a form for hockey practice. What is being suggested is that an LGB support club is only there for LGB kids whose parents are already fully supportive - closeted gay kids with homophobic parents, tough!

Yeah, a lot of us are well aware of unsupportive, homophobic parents. It does not, it cannot over ride safeguarding, for the same reason as any other 'secret keeping' cannot.

Safeguarding has to always be a priority. There are online groups for kids who don't feel they would be supported to come out at home.

You can't throw safeguarding out the window if children are lgbt and you shouldn't. LGBT kids deserve just as much protection as heterosexual kids

No, but I have notices before in the LGBT community they think it is not only acceptable but laudable to encourage children to go against their parents wishes in sexual matters. They don't seem to think this is predatory at all, they will give you some tripe about "sexual freedom" even if it involves very young teens.

I went to an LGBT youth group from age 13-17. No parental consent needed. In fact, a number of the friends I made there would not be able to go with parental consent, because they were not out to their parents.

We had a stand at the local pride, watched films, did artsy stuff, and helped produce a resource pack for schools. I had my first kiss there. Yes, we also (shock horror) sometimes talked about sex. It was actually the only place I learned anything, from qualified and DBSed adults, about safe lesbian and gay sex, including consent. My school could barely do lessons on safe hetero sex.

It was a fantastic and important part of my adolescence. Please let her go if she wants to.

they wrote back and said - you are welcome to come and join, we would liek to meet with your before you come to a meeting, so if you would like to do that, please reply They haven't given safeguarding of your 13 year old any thought at all. Just come along and meet a random adult and no need to tell anyone. In what other activity/interest group would that be an acceptable set up?

DS 14 has been a member of a sport club for 10 years. Yesterday I was emailed to ask if they could have his mobile number to include him in a WhatsApp group of teens to arrange matches/transport. They could have just asked him at a squad practice but they made sure a parent/carer was aware. That is good practice.

I am well aware of the problem of teens with unsupportive parents.
I am also well aware that it could be a great club for dd, she is very keen to go.
I would also point out that there i a fair amount of projection going on here, in that she goes to a LGBT club at school, and there is a gay teacher who comes to the club, and they, as a school club, are going to the local pride. She has gay family members too.

That does not change anything around safeguarding though does it?

My DD went to a LGBT youth group and found that the older kids left the group at around 16+ because they didn't want to hang around the younger kids at one point.

One girl who went to the group ended up being thrown out of the house at 16 by deeply religious parents so I can see why the have confidentiality.

All leaders were fully vetted and employed by the council with proper safeguarding in place. DD tried to follow a leader on social media and he refused because of safeguarding.

I don't think the kids spent all their time talking about sex, no doubt it did happen but the focus was on friendship.

I never signed any consent forms, but I also never signed any forms for the music youth group or the village youth club.

I understand why you are worried about meeting an adult outside the group but I would be a lot less worried knowing they were following safeguarding protocols and invite a companion along.

Can you talk to them by email about your concerns?

Problems that we didn't use to have when I was involved in LGB youth groups :

www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/azakld/i_got_kicked_out_of_the_gay_group_at_my_school/

udate
dd very keen, I dicussed my issues around safeguarding, and she understood. I asked if she was ok if I wrote back to the group, she agreed.
emailed her back, basically saying dd is keen to come, but I was a bit concerned around meeting up with adult v, safeguarding etc.

will see what we get back.

In the process, dd and I had an awesome conversation. So cool, I don't want to repeat it here, but I feel very reassured that she has her head screwed on.

It was a fantastic and important part of my adolescence. Please let her go if she wants to.

I don’t think OP or anyone else wants to stop her child from going to a group that could be helpful and supportive. We do however want to stop ALL children from being in situations with inadequate safeguarding.

I never signed any consent forms, but I also never signed any forms for the music youth group or the village youth club.

Then they too are utterly shit at safeguarding. I don’t care if a group for under 18’s is for sports, arts, music, LGBT, crafts, reading, whatever they ALL need to adhere to basic safeguarding.

Most people who volunteer with kids do so because they are community minded and want to give something back, however it cannot be ignored that some do so because they are predators and that is what safeguarding is for.

That’s really good to hear steppemum. Your DD is lucky to have such a supportive Mum.

I totally get that a teenager with homophobic parents will not want them to have to give permission to sign.

However, that doesn't trump the need for parental permission at all. It's a massive red flag that the adult leaders of this group think it's OK.

It's excellent that there is an LGBT group in school that the kids can attend - even if it isn't their cup of tea, at least there's safeguarding measures in place.

And excellent update, OP - bloody well done.

You and your daughter sound like you have a great relationship you must be very proud of her that she can come to you and respect your concerns.

With reference to the age group, the seven year difference between 13 and 19 is key. A seven year period is often taken as peerage, especially when discussing peer on peer abuse. Those 7+ older than their victims will be seen as perpetrators by the police or CPS for example, while those in closer age ranges (particularly with young children) may be considered a gray area.

In short, 19 year olds are not the peers of 13 year olds and any safeguarding should recognise that.

Bebstar - in child on child abuse situations a gap of 2-3 years is considered to be a possible abusive situation. Not sure where you get the 7 year from.

The seven year gap was discussed when Lena Durnham was accused of inappropriate contact with her younger sister, perhaps it's an American thing. I got the impression it was the standard for peer groups, not necessarily evidence that abuse couldn't take place within that age range.

When I say accused btw, I mean trial by social media, not an official case btw.

in British safeguarding training, we are told that if there is a 2-3 year gap and there is sexual contact, that is considered to be abuse.
That is how it would be treated under law too, although obviously when 2 children are concerned, they have to bear in mind that in some ways both are victims.

It is usually taught slightlyin reverse, in the sense that if one child accuses the other, it is less likely to be taken as abuse unless there is a 2-3 year gap. With no gap, it is more likely to be considered inappropriate but mutual, unless there are other issues around control.

I ave probably explained it very badly.

I get what you’re saying steppemum.

13 and 14 year old having ‘consensual’ sex you’d want to safeguard both children.

13 and 17 year old you’d want to criminalise the 17 year old.

7 year old assaults a 2 year old because of what’s previously been done to them, both are victims.