Should this LGBT club be going behind parents backs?

[steppemum]

dd is 14 and gay. No problem.

I have just seen an email from her to a local teenagers LGBT club. It all looks OK, and in principle I wouldn't have any problem with her going along to it, but she wrote to them aged 13 (just had her birthday) and asked to join. They wrote to her and said you are welcome, this is where and when we meet and you are welcome to bring along a parent/friend. The club is open to kids aged 13-19

But, she was 13. No other activity that she goes to aged 13 is allowed to have her there without signed parental permission. I only saw this email as I get copies of her emails to my computer still.

While I have huge sympathy with 13 year olds strugglling with their sexuality and wanting to access a place liek this without their parents, I just feel really uncomfortable that at 13 they will welcome her to a group, meeting in town, in the early evening, (so finishes at 7:30) with no permission needed. It doesn't sit right with me.

AIBU?

You could contact the registered charities that run this service and ask to speak to their safeguarding lead and to see their safeguarding policy.

Should you have concerns at that point, The regulator of charities is the charity commission (in england) and they are very hot on safeguarding at the moment.

www.gov.uk/guidance/safeguarding-duties-for-charity-trustees#children-adults-at-risk

www.gov.uk/government/news/charity-commission-announces-suite-of-steps-on-safeguarding

Thanks for that link.

I've had another look at the website and found a blog.

All pretty straight forward - we did xx at group tonight. Most things fine. But one or two of the comments just made me wince, as dd is only just 14. They look like discussions etc that should be being held amongst 16-18 year olds.

And there is quite a lot of trans stuff scattered around (how to bind safely?) which does not fill me with joy either.

I'll have a look at that checklist, thanks

I agree with pp, contact them for a chat. If they have any sense, they will see that you are not a raging homophobe and not trying to be obstructive.

BTW Stonewater is a housing association.

It sounds a bloody minefieldsteppermum you want your dd to be safe but you want to be wary so you don't push her away,

The Diversity Trust is not a charity. It is a community interest company [[https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08141031]

beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08141031

Stonewater is a non-profit, charitable housing association. They're very above board with all of their pursuits so I'm surprised at this! May I ask what area you're in?
I'd send an email to the group and ask for further info about your concerns, it all sounds a bit dodgy to me.

Interesting about Stonewater, I wonder how they justify supporting this under their housing agenda

I suppose they may be providing the physical space (they carefully don;t give out the venue anywhere on their website. That makes me sad actually, to think that they have to be careful in order to protect these kids against attack/prejudice)

A local young persons homeless unit runs a group for teenagers I guess some vulnerable teens could find themselves homeless so that is probably why the HA charity are involved in the group.

Op, this group sounds very very similar to one my ds1 went to . He came out when he was 11 (he’s 20 now). The problem. Was he didn’t know anyone else who was gay. He didn’t struggle with it, we didn’t struggle with it. There was no angst around it. However the group existed for the very reason that the kids there felt they couldn’t tell their parents, or their parents were not supportive. I went along with ds once (I think he was around 13 at the time) and honestly? Ds was the youngest yes, but the others were so shy and traumatised by their own sexuality and how they were being treated as a result of it at home, it was their safe space. The volunteer leaders there said they would be in danger if the whereabouts of the club wa made known. I obv knew where it was because ds told me and I used to drop him off and pick him up. He found it quite boring in the end and didn’t go for long. I found it quite sad. All thet all needed or seemed to need was a safe place to just be. And to be understood. And cared for. It was a really lovely place actually, I hope it’s still running. Feel free to pm me if you like

When I was a teenager in the 90s I attended an LGB (as it was then) group without my parents’ permission - would have not attended if parental consent had been required. However I was 16. I work in youth services now and parental consent is required for young people under 18 to access services - our service manager is very strict about this. We do not have a dedicated LGBT group although LGBT issues are discussed in some of the groups young people attend. I was seconded to another team within the local authority I work for recently which also worked with young people. The rule there was 13+ parental consent was not requested to participate in the group (however the focus was political/current affairs rather than sexuality). I was quite surprised about this approach but my manager informed me that apparently the national (England) policy was that 13+ young people can give their own consent as long as they signed in and gave emergency contact details for parents. This issue of parental consent was a topic of some debate in our team and I would always contact parents anyway as a parent myself I would want to know if a local authority group were working with my teens but I was not officially required to do so.

That's very interesting rabbit, thanks

I must say, that there is nothing I can see to suggest this group is anything other than the same as the one kenworthington describes, and I don't want to wade in a criticise. I was just surprised at the set up, and the lack of parental consent.

I would ahve assumed 16 was the cut off line. I also feel that in the whole trans debate parental right sare being undermined, and so I guess I am sensitive to that.

I have to go to work, so won;t be back on til tomorrow, thanks for all your help and support.

You don't have to go in hard - I think a good, supportive LGBT group would welcome sensible queries from involved, engaged parents. That's what an 'ally' does, really. All the best xx

good advice Floral x

Please contact the charity commissioner about the lack of parental consent and other safeguarding issues.

I have three teens who go to a lot of different groups between them. Every single one needs a consent form. If they go out an an activity they need a different consent form. If they go on a school trip to play hockey at the next school they need another form. If they take a friend who is not a member to their club, that child needs a consent form from their parents.

Tedious but good practice.

I’d not be happy at my 13 year old discussing sex with 18 and 19 year old adults who have no training or qualifications to work in this area.

I would have thought they are on a bit of dodgy ground in a couple of respects.

Once young people turn 18 they are adults. Obviously they are never alone with the younger children in this case (hopefully) but as it is regular contact I think from a safeguarding perspective it is dodgy.

The gap between a 13 and 19 year old is vast. So vast.

Also what kind of shit show doesn't take emergency contacts. Seriously..... 👀👀👀

Does it take a scandal in one of these groups to make them realise that safeguarding rules don't just disappear because you are LGBTQ+

Group sounds concerning to me.
I wouldn't have gone to an LGB youth group if I needed parental permission ( not that there were any where I lived) but I probably would have thought hanging out with 19 year olds would have been amazing. I probably would have thought the Walton Hop was a great idea too.
I'm glad I never got to make those decisions at 13!
Unless this is in a particularly isolated community I can't see why anyone of 17/18/19 would want to be around 13 year olds. We were all clubbing by that age!

Pitch it to the group that this is to protect them from erroneous accusations as much as basic safeguarding. They're leaving themselves vulnerable as well as the children / teens attending.

While I would have reservations about LGBT youth groups now (particularly if I had a GNC gay child) and think that it's good to check about safeguarding etc I think that some of the comments are a bit off the mark ie that it will be a group "about sex" or that it would only be needed for young people who are sexually active.

I attended an LGB (no T back then) youth group when I was younger and we did regular youth group things (played games, quizzes, trips out, cooking, art etc) plus some stuff that was LGB specific such as famous gay people in history, the history of gay rights, talking about coming out etc. It wasn't about sex. The main thing is to get to meet and talk to other young people who are in the same situation as you and in a place where you are accepted as it can be very isolating being the only one (if you don't know anyone in your regular life who is openly gay).

I had a look at their blog (if it's the same one), and the topics are:

'I'm trans, we need gender-neutral toilets'
'How to bind your breasts'

and some very generic stuff not related to any specific LGBT topic.

Looking at the FB page it suggests as the most closely related group 'Mermaids', and promotes a monthly gender identity family day

Most of the posts are about trans, e.g., one dated 25th October 2016 'The left is 2013 at my high school graduation [girl with long hair wearing blouse] a month before I started my transition a month before my last suicide attempt. The right [muscled person with tattoo and short typically male haircut] is 2016 a bit over two years on hormones and happier than ever'

According to the various bits and pieces on the FB site, this charity is supported by the police, council, etc.

It is very clear there is a massive push across hundreds of LGBT groups, schools, social media, etc., to push messages such as these - 'I took hormones and now I am happy'.

That is why there are now 100x more transgender children than 20 years ago. Because children are being told 'take these pills and cut off your breasts and you will be happy.

And what could be better than that?

the post below that is a link to

"MY TRANSGENDER JOURNEY | 6 Years On Testosterone
Join me in celebrating 6 years on testosterone as I tell you about my transgender journey, look back at old…"

celebrating 6 years on testosterone?

In our area there are societies with even greater age ranges. Dance classes with 10 and 20+ yo, bands ranging 11-90 so not sure LGBT group is much different in that respect. Totally agree on the secrecy/lack of sought consent. They're on shaky ground whoever is running it.

scotsheather
dd already goes to a band which is from age 7-77!

The difference is that all the under 18 have permission slips and that the context is playing an instrument, not discussion aorund sexuality.

Although I take the point above that most of what they do is regualr youth group stuff.

At band too, it is a structured setting, whereas at a youth group there is a lot of hanging round and chatting, and a lot of potential for a quiet 1:1 chat etc

Thinking about this overnight, I realise that me concerns were raised by the fact that a 13 year old wrote to them, and they wrote back and said - you are welcome to come and join, we would liek to meet with your before you come to a meeting, so if you would like to do that, please reply.

In other words, an adult has now invited a child to a met up outside of the group.

Now, I am 100% sure that htis is all above board and innocent, adult checks out the person asking to join before they reveal the address of the meeting place, for the security of all. Dd was invited to bring an adult /parent along. I am not suggesting they are trying to hide anything, just that it does not sit well with me at all.

I should also say that it may be that at that meeting they will ask her for permission forms, but they will have ALREADY met with her without permission, and outside of the group.

Our church youth group is 12-18, basically all of secondary school, and they go off on camp every summer. She goes to Explorer scouts which is 14-18, so maybe I am being overly cautious.
Maybe it is because it is around sexuality that is worries me.
I can't imagine they will talk about anything she doesn't already know!

@QuietContraryMary

I am not sure how you have found the group, but you have, can I please aks that you don't post anything else that coudl easily idntify them, as I had deliberately not wanted our town etc to show up with this.

Thanks