Some feminists, Emma Thompson amongst them, sign letter decrying trans-exclusionary responses to the GRA

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www.thenational.scot/news/17472564.they-do-not-speak-for-us-feminists-hit-back-at-trans-exclusionary-activists-in-open-letter/

We, the undersigned, are a large and diverse group of women who are committed to ensuring that trans people feel welcome and safe within our society.

Recently there has been a rise in ill-informed articles and commentary, where writers have continually insinuated that trans women are not women. These same pieces misrepresent current legal statutes, equalities policies, and public attitudes in Scotland.

Since 2004 the Gender Recognition Act has realised, in law, the rights of trans women as women and trans men as men. Since 1999, the Sex Discrimination (Gender Reassignment) Regulations and then the Equality Act (2010) have recognised, in law, the right of the trans community not to be discriminated against on the basis of their gender reassignment. The right of trans people to access gender specific services is an already settled legal matter.

Many national and regional news outlets routinely fail in their pages to recognise this legal reality. Instead, it is our perspective that some writers rely on recycling outdated arguments in an uncomfortable attempt to shoehorn trans identities into much needed conversations about gender-based discrimination and violence.

We believe that national conversations about gender-based discrimination and violence are necessary, however these conversations should not in any way attempt to roll back the rights that trans people already have in Scotland, nor spread misinformation.

In the Scottish Government's recent public consultation on reforming the Gender Recognition Act (2004) a majority of respondents supported gender self declaration, as well as recognising non-binary people. As a collective of women, we urge that trans-exclusionary writers do not suggest that their narrow and archaic arguments are in any way representative of the women of Scotland. They do not speak for us.

This is not an issue of Freedom of Speech. Both sides have a plethora of platforms to outline their position. However, it is imperative that these platforms should not be used to spread misinformation or misrepresent the law or the facts in this area.

When this conversation is reduce

d to allegations of "shutting down debate" whenever misrepresentation or misinformation is challenged, the result is to purposefully discount the position of many women - like us - who support the trans community. We will be heard.

Trans people have played an integral role in every civil rights movement to date; from LGBT equality to women's causes. Attempts to airbrush trans people from conversations regarding equality and human rights, or to exclude them from advancements for LGBT and women's rights, have happened before. Such efforts may have re-energised, but they are nothing new, and we say as a collective of women: they are not representative of us. We support trans rights.

Outlets and commentators have an ethical responsibility to consider the impact of their reportage, analysis and commentary particularly on the mental health of trans young people. Recently, data from Stonewall Scotland revealed that over half of trans people considered ending their lives last year. Trans people continue to face unlawful discrimination and violence. Routine misinformation and sensationalism is contributing to a cultural climate where this is legitimised. This has to stop.

Journalists, commentators, and publishers have a central role to play in ensuring Scotland is a welcoming and inclusive place for trans people.

The conversation has to change.

Rhiannon Spear, Chair of Time for Inclusive Education (TIE) and Glasgow City Councillor for Greater Pollok

Tiffany Kane, Vice Chair of Time for Inclusive Education (TIE) and Operations Manager at Common Weal

Dame Emma Thompson, Double Academy Award Winner

Laura Waddell, Publisher and Writer

Dr Jennifer Jones, Independent

Rosa Zambonini, Communications Manager to Member of the Scottish Parliament

Cllr Jennifer Layden, SNP Councillor for Calton

Dr Claire Askew, University of Edinburgh

Laura Wylie, Sexual Violence Prevention Worker at the Women’s Rape and Sexual Abuse Centre (Dundee and Angus),

Sinead Daly, CEO of the Women’s Rape and Sexual Abuse Centre (Dundee and Angus)

Christina Neuwirth, Writer

Kate Adair, SQIFF

Eve Livingston, Freelance Journalist

Kelly Given, Equalities & Mental Health Advocate

Jennifer Constable, Journalist

Rachel Hamada, Journalist

Leona Jack, Gender Based Violence Practitioner

Angela Haggerty, Journalist

Lynne Davies, Foster Carer

Amanda Stanley, Freelance Podcast Producer

Kaite Welsh, Author & Journalist

Hannah Bardell, MP for Livingston

Miriam Brett, International Finance Project Manager

Sarah Masson, or Co-Artistic Director of Shift, Shift Theatre

Fi and Charlotte Duffy-Scott, Co-Owners, Category Is Books, Glasgow

Claire Biddles, Freelance Writer

Erin Hardee, Schools Outreach Organiser

School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee

Dr Pat Cullum BA (Hons) DPhil FRHistS, FHEA, School Co-Ordinator for Student Experience, School of Music, Humanities and Media, University of Huddersfield

Gail Ross MSP, SNP Member of Scottish Parliament for Caithness

Dr Eleanor Janega, Guest Teacher at the LSE

Cllr Kim Long, Green Councillor for Dennistoun

Cllr Eva Murray, Labour Councillor for Garscadden/ Scotstounhill

Cllr Christina Cannon, SNP Councillor for Springburn/Robroyston

Cllr Martha Wardrop, Green Councillor for Hillhead

Bailie Christy Mearns, Green Councillor for Anderston/ City & Yorkhill

Cara Spence, Head of Programmes, LGBT Youth Scotland

Amy Irons, Broadcaster

Hannah Pearson, Queer Feminist Campaigner

Rebecca Crowther, PHD Social Science Researcher

Susan Ross, Police Scotland

Jane Friffin, Head of Partnerships, LGBT Youth Scotland

Michelle Sodo, Head of Operations, LGBT Youth Scotland

Nicola Booth, Head of Youth Work, LGBT Youth Scotland

Bridget Bradley, Teaching Fellow, The University of Edinburgh School of Medical Anthropology

Naomi McAuliffe, Scotland Programme Director, Amnesty International

Gayle Telfer Stevens, Olivier Award Winning Actor

Jen Ang, Lawyer and Director, Just Right Scotland

Lisa Clark, Senior Communications Officer, Children in Scotland

Mhairi McMillan, Solicitor, Logans Solicitors, Cumnock

Margaret Logan, Women’s Aid, Support Worker

Dr Brandi Lee Lough Dennell, Research Associate

Rona Mackay, SNP MSP for Strathkelvin and Bearsden

Hazel Marzetti, PHD Student, University of Glasgow

Pam Currie, EIS FELA President (Personal Capacity)

Fiona Robertson, SNP's National Women's and Equalities Convenor

Katherine O’Donnell, Journalist

Christine Burns MBE, Equality Campaigner and Author

Lucy Spraggan, Musician

Leeze Lawrence, Producer, Editor, Filmmaker & Trans Advocate

Helen Nugent, Journalist and Editor of Northern Soul

Janet Coulson, Actor and Creative Director of Firebrand Theatre

Paris Lees, Writer and Broadcaster

Marlene Zwickler, Agent and Producer

Elena Soper, Feminist and Activist

Mhairi Black MP, Paisley and Renfrewshire South

Dr Lindsay Clark, Post-Doctoral researcher

Jackie Brock, Chief Executive, Children in Scotland

Joanna Murphy, Chair, National Parent Forum for Scotland

Louise Oliver, Actor and producer

Lady Mary Hope, Lady Hope of Craighead

Audrey Barnes, Campaigns & Programmes Coordinator at YWCA Scotland

Jemma Tracey, Senior Participation Officer, Children in Scotland

Laura McGlynn, University of Glasgow

Bailey McCormack, Event Coordinator and Freelance Performer

Emma Rogan, Senior Policy Officer at Children in Scotland

Róisín McKelvey, Feminist PhD Researcher

Janine Ewen, Queer Feminist, Violence Against Women Campaigner

So Emma Thompson withdrew from a film because she felt women shouldn’t have to tolerate a gropey boss but she’s fully supportive of female prisoners being incarcerated with female-presenting male-bodied sex offenders, including rapists? Okaaaaay.

I'm another one who can't read it all.

I'm put in mind of the very many number of women who beceme gender critical, after being complete allies.

Who called us bigots and were genuinely distressed at how we could be so 'transphobic'.

This letter will get pushback. Across social media. And points will be persistently refuted, with evidence.

These people can't all be evil, woman haters. They are just in the middle of the journey.

Emma Thompson is a bit if a 'luvvie' who appears to have form for a knee-jerk reaction when it comes to civil rights. But she is definitely, pro women. Her 'sex pest' comments were very reassuring.

It will change. Watch.

when will we see the equivalent letter from a group of men wanting to ensure trans people feel welcome and safe?

Maybe that fella who wanted to "drag" the Get the L Out protesters "by their saggy tits" could put the word out? I'm sure Haddock, Owen Jones, Peter Tatchell and Michael Cashman would gladly put their names to it.

I couldn’t even read all those paragraphs of utter bootlicking. Infuriating.

I agree Chatty, it fair gies me the boke reading that utter pish!

Exempt they would be supportive of welcoming transwomen into womens spaces... so perhaps ushering into, rather than 'welcoming' would be more apt.

Except ffs

So, these people want to talk about the issues? Great! Let's talk! Where and when?

Yes, I'd love to have a little chat about "Karen White", myself.

All those signatories are quite happy implying that ordinary women are bigots for understanding that males who identify as trans are male, and are insistent that they're women.

I presume that they are all happy to give a concise and non circular definition of 'woman' that includes me and Paris Lees, but not Michael Heseltine

come on - you're sure sure you're right - let's hear it then?

Trans people have played an integral role in every civil rights movement to date

Where is the evidence for this? In the last few years I have never seen trans people advance any cause without centring themselves and their demands, and making it all about them. They aggressively harass and police women and their language, and even managed to plonk themselves in the middle of the campaign for reproductive rights for Irish women to the degree that we were told we couldn't even use the word "woman".

Those of us old enough to remember further back to that and other causes, have no memory at all of trans people anywhere. Gay and lesbian people yes - and I remember lesbians being particularly active in feminist campaigns. But trans people? The only way they can try to make this convincing is when they start attempting to trans dead lesbians, gender nonconforming people, drag queens and women who disguised themselves as men at a time when women had no rights. Which is unforgivable in its trampling over gay history and women's history.

Very disappointing.

They mix up sex and gender, yes, and also conflate 'legal reality' with actual reality.

A government could pass a law saying that the sky was legally pink. It wouldn't make the sky change colour. A law saying that some men are legally women is just the same.

So, these people want to talk about the issues? Great! Let's talk! Where and when?

and yes this

one of the most offensive things about that letter is the rewriting of history

most of this whole mess has been ordinary women saying 'woah, woah, woah, can we just slow down and talk about this first?'

I am unsurprised by the inclusion of the Dundee and Angus WRASAC as a signatory in the list.

Various WRASACs promote belief in conspiracy theories re satanic ritual abuse / ritual abuse and many offer therapies from therapists trained in the same dubious "parts therapies", "body psychotherapies", "energy psychotherapies" and hypnotherapies that are routinely offered to children with confusing feelings about gender / sexuality.

www.wrasac.org.uk/ritual-abuse/

It is a national disgrace, we are letting down the most vulnerable people in society and placing them in the hands of quacks and charlatans.

Apologies for the derail

I will start another thread about this as it is a very important issue and central to this debate.

Some of those job titles is suggestive of why we've had issues in the first place. Queer theory and entryism - it's been going on for years under the radar.

Yes. Absolute merry-go-round for posh, privileged women who do not reply on public facilities and services.

Once again, the issue of class rears its ugly head.

Ordinary women are going to have to rebuild every movement and service all over again. They've been colonised by women (and non-women) who don't need them and don't care about the needs of their own service users.

Emma can fuck the fuck off to far side of fuck.

It reads to me as - women don't be mean to the male people because their safety and comfort is so much more important than yours, and the law agrees.

It's basically telling women that they aren't entitled to set their own boundaries, express an opinion or have any say in laws.

Love hoe Paris lees had the brassneck to sign that.

No question that trans men/women should have their human rights respected. It isn't a question of 'transwomen are women', but that if those born biologically/physically male want to live as women I'll respect their rights to whatever name or pronoun they choose. In my turn, I don't necessarily object to being referred to as cis-gender (within the right context of debate) but I find terminology like 'cervix-haver' absolutely derogatory and offensive.

For me, issues arise when trans rights fly in direct opposition to the very fragile ground women have gained over the last century, and the even more fragile ground occupied by children. Case in point: the transman who does not want to be referred to as a 'mother' on his child's birth certificate (yet was seemingly happy to undergo pregnancy and birth despite gender dysphoria). Enshrined in UK law is that 'the rights of the child shall be paramount'. These rights go so far as to know who their gamete donors are; a right which trumps those of the adults who helped others to have a family. The legal mother is the person who carried and gave birth to a child (not the eggf-donor). What happens to these rights if the trans-father's demands are upheld?

A second concern relates to women's spaces, prisons, changing rooms, etc. I'm female. I was once a victim of rape. My biology makes me susceptible to that occurrence as I'm physically less strong than a person born biologically/externally male. A person with a penis in a female changing room is something I'd perceive as a direct threat. Do I have a human right to assert that my status as a victim of a vile sex crime makes ME the vulnerable one, and I don't want putting at increased risk of a similar occurrence again?

I'm not anti-trans. But that petition is misguided. Yes, trans people face discrimination and require protection, but not at the cost of other people's. I, other women, children, and particularly former victims of male violence are the more vulnerable of these groups. THEIR rights to their own segregated spaces (and knowledge of their own parentage) should be paramount. Anything less and UK law will become extremely problematic and inconsistent.

The letter is factually and legally incorrect.

The trans debate is an excellent litmus test for those capable of critical thinking.

LangCleg yes, I did a quick check on the background of some of those young women. Advanced degrees in some made-up bollocksology subject and a succession of internships and volunteering roles which suggests a level of privilege and bankrolling by parents. Very removed from the grassroots movements that organised and campaigned and fundraised for services like women's refuges and rape crisis centres a couple of generations ago.

When was this written? Sinead Daly left Dundee RC in November 2018. She doesn't work in the women's sector anymore.

I know another person on that list and she's a woke tit.

Trans Leaders of the Civil Rights Struggle:

Martine Luther King
Ernie Pankhurst
Andy Dworkin

etc

Emma Thompson is a complete luvvie who would latch onto anything if she thought it would make her seem woke. IMO.

Very removed from the grassroots movements that organised and campaigned and fundraised for services like women's refuges and rape crisis centres a couple of generations ago.

Who know the reality of the issues on the ground and have some serious concerns about allowing men into women’s refuges if they say they are women. See FPW report on this - these voices could do with support in sensibly discussing these issues, not pressure to shut up on such a sensitive topic.

Trans people have played an integral role in every civil rights movement to date

Where is the evidence for this?

There is no evidence pachyderm because like TWAW!!!! and TMAM!!!! and the suicide stats and the murder stats and the male and female bodies are the same so men competing in women's sport is totally fine etc etc etc it is utterly infuriating made up great hairy swinging bollocks!

Ordinary women are going to have to rebuild every movement and service all over again.

They are ensuring though that women cannot do this by weaponising the law against any woman/org that tries. This is what is so bleak about it.
There are loads of examples on the Glinner thread and other threads explaining how the centering of men in women's spaces has decimated services and groups for women. When faced with being inclusive to disruptive men they just fold and quietly cease to be leaving many areas with no provision.

Eve Livingston, Freelance Journalist

article December 2018:
'How an Online Forum for Moms Became a Toxic Hotbed of Transphobia' By Eve Livingston

(extract)
"Since 2016, Mumsnet—specifically its Feminism board—has increasingly found itself on the receiving end of criticism from trans people and their allies. “When I started using Twitter and engaging in the trans sphere in mid-2017, Mumsnet was constantly referenced both on my timeline and in DMs,” says Joss Prior, a trans woman who is part of a sizable trans community that monitors and discusses Mumsnet regularly. “The whole of the Feminism board was like a spectre hanging over the daily trans discourse.”

Prior points to the now partially-deleted but notorious 2016 “I Am Spartacus” thread in which a user asserted that “men cannot become women, ever. Women cannot become men, ever” and went on to misgender a number of trans men and women, including high-profile campaigners Paris Lees and Danielle Muscato. The post sparked thousands of supportive comments and is consistently referenced in up-to-date threads, with “I am Spartacus” acting as a shorthand rallying call for anti-trans feminists. Attempts have even been made to organize campaigning activity around the phrase." (continues)

“It’s a core group of a few hundred hardcore trans-exclusionary radical feminists (TERFs), a tiny percentage of overall users,” says Christine, the mother of a trans child and also part of the network that regularly monitors Mumsnet. (Christine’s name has been changed for privacy reasons.) “Yet the Feminism board is just 90 percent discussions about trans people on any given day.” (continues)

broadly.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/a3mn9k/mumsnet-uk-mom-forum-terf-transphobia-feminism

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3444548-Vice-how-an-online-forum-for-moms-became-a-toxic-hotbed-of-transphobia