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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Powerful article in the Mail about the Tavistock 'rushing children'

37 replies

truthisarevolutionaryact · 01/03/2019 23:45

Here:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6762379/Former-governor-says-fears-hurrying-children-transgender-path.html

OP posts:
Iused2BanOptimist · 02/03/2019 00:00

Rod Liddell seamlessly moves from women's sport to

"Frankenstein’s castle, i.e. the Tavistock clinic’s gender identity development service"

spectator.us/womens-sports-consist-men/

BettyFloop · 02/03/2019 00:14

Politically, I loathe the Daily Mail but, hell's teeth, they're doing sterling work with this.
That was an excellent article by Marcus Evans and I'm so pleased a major outlet has the guts to publish it.

These are strange times indeed.

Needmoresleep · 02/03/2019 00:18

Fantastic. Clear, professional and thought through. Am I right in thinking he left his job over this, so absolutely deserves to say his piece.

OrchidInTheSun · 02/03/2019 01:03

Wow, that's very comprehensive and absolutely damning.

Datun · 02/03/2019 01:04

He keeps mentioning trans lobby groups and pressure groups. I wish he would name them. Make them account for themselves.

thewitchofwentworth · 02/03/2019 01:25

I'm pretty sure all the trans lobby groups are doing the pressuring, along with the majority of the LGBT lobby groups.

Mrskeats · 02/03/2019 01:33

Frankenstein’s castle. Wow. Chilling and apt.

TurboTeddy · 02/03/2019 05:22

That is an excellent article. It's a shame that the writer felt they had to resign from their job before they could fully air their concerns. Marcus seems like just the kind of person GIDS needs.

I wonder if it has occurred to trans pressure groups that medical and/or surgical intervention for a group of people who have not been adequately assessed is likely to lead to larger numbers of patients in that group reporting poor outcomes. The NHS will only fund treatment that can be demonstrated to improve health and well being. In years to come we might find that audit of the current treatment protocols provides data which suggests puberty blockers, cross section hormones and surgery result in worse outcomes than no medical (as oppose to mental health) intervention at all. These treatment options may then be withdrawn altogether. This would be a travesty as there are undoubtedly some patients who do benefit and in the absence of other options I think it should remain available to those with severe gender dysphoria but ONLY when a thorough assessment has been carried out.

There is also the issue of prescribing of medication that has not been tested in this cohort of patients. I know that clinicians can prescribe off label but to do so in children with the intention of altering their physical development speaks to me of incredible arrogance and complete lack of concern for the patients future health. I guess the patients are referred to adult services when they turn 18 so this clinic will never have to deal with the fall out.

In an ideal world it would be good to see research into alternative treatments that focussed less on altering the body but until the trans lobby stops labelling it as conversion therapy it is unlikely to happen.

TurboTeddy · 02/03/2019 05:23

Cross sex hormones in second para, autocorrect grrr.

hackmum · 02/03/2019 07:22

Excellent and rather measured piece by Marcus Evans - perhaps too measured. Someone needs to be talking about the reality of surgery and lifelong hormones.

Terrific piece from Rod Liddle. Who’d have thought he had it in him?

Iused2BanOptimist · 02/03/2019 07:39

It is good to see a well written clear explanation of the problems being raised at last. However the cynic in me notes that he mentions concerns being raised ten years ago. He also mentioned this on his radio 4 interview. I wonder what he was thinking over the past ten years and why it is only now that he has decided to resign and cite his worry about the treatment pathways.

The cynic in might wonder about rats jumping a leaving ship and getting out before the finger pointing and accusations start getting nasty.

borntobequiet · 02/03/2019 07:52

Liddle’s an entertaining and powerful writer, if a git much of the time. However, describing psychoanalysis as a pseudoscience undermines his case somewhat (I agree with him but many don’t).

ComputerSaysMo · 02/03/2019 08:01

That line jumped out at me as well, born. I thought it was odd - is it a hobby horse of Liddle’s?

borntobequiet · 02/03/2019 08:25

He has a whole stable of hobby horses, largely things he considers silly (ie irrational). Not a nuanced sort of person!

Iused2BanOptimist · 02/03/2019 09:00

He has a whole stable of hobby horses

I have a whole hive of bees in my bonnet. I'm now wondering if that's my feminine socialisation. I much prefer horses. I'm going to trans specie my bees to horses. Grin

borntobequiet · 02/03/2019 09:18

Just beelieve and you can be whatever species you want.
Sorry.

TimeLady · 02/03/2019 09:23

McKinnon is by no means the only top level transwomen cyclist, albeit this one hasn't claimed a woman's world record.

cyclistsalliance.org/articles/i-am-finally-human/

teawamutu · 02/03/2019 09:32

Fantastic article from Marcus Evans.

LangCleg · 02/03/2019 09:49

As a manager, I was on the clinic’s committee more than ten years ago when concerns were first raised by members of staff within the GID unit that the assessments of patients weren’t in-depth enough.

Staff have been attempting to raise concerns for ten years, predating even the current contagion-related increase in numbers?

This is fucking terrifying.

Vixxxy · 02/03/2019 10:17

But..theres extensive counselling first. A whole hour up to 6 hours! And the waiting list is about 2 years long which is not the same for any other medical problem and is clearly just because the world is transphobic. The only way to make this fair is to abolish all wait times for gender issues, and give out hormones on first visit!

Iused2BanOptimist · 02/03/2019 10:40

Yup. He had ten years to find another less controversial job , or indeed whisper it, to address those concerns Lang

I'm calling it. He and Bell are getting out before the court cases start rolling in. And making sure they come out smelling of roses.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 02/03/2019 11:39

And making sure they come out smelling of roses.

Whistleblowing in the nhs is a career-ending thing to do, regardless of how justified

Thingybob · 02/03/2019 12:24

Has this been posted?

An open letter to Tavistock GIDS that cites the Daily Mail article and this weeks Panorama programme

www.transgendertrend.com/open-letter-to-tavistock-gids/

bumpertobumper · 02/03/2019 12:28

This story was also covered in a balanced way in the observer last weekend and he was interviewed on the Today prog on Radio 4

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/23/child-transgender-service-governor-quits-chaos?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

n my 40 years of experience in psychiatry, I have learned that dismissing serious concerns about a service or approach is often driven by a defensive wish to prevent painful examination of an ‘overvalued system’,” he complained in his resignation email.
He added: “I do not believe we understand what is going on in this complex area and the need to adopt an attitude which examines things from different points of view is essential. This is difficult in the current environment as the debate and discussion required is continually being closed down or effectively described as ‘transphobic’ or in some way prejudicial.”

bumpertobumper · 02/03/2019 12:29

Rod Liddle is a dog whistle right wing toad.
We need better allies...