Conflicted

[DemisRoussoss]

Hi!

I’m a bit confused/conflicted about something that’s just come up.

I have been GC for about a year, and am falling down various rabbit holes.

Anyway, I work with vulnerable people and as part of my work I try to introduce my clients to social connections/opportunities within the local community.

Anyway (again), a local community enterprise group consists of a women’s group, and I’ve supported my client to get to these groups.

The volunteer ‘leader’ of the women’s group is obviously (to me) a mtf man. I don’t know how far they are into their transition, but I can tell. I genuinely don’t know if this is because there’s no natal woman who wants to do it, or what.

It occurred to me that my wearing a ‘woman’ t shirt could hurt their feelings, and I don’t want to do that.

Anyway, I just wondered how to square my gc self with my compassionate, accepting self?

I'm inclined to agree.
DemisRoussoss you will be attending the group WITH your client?

I would agree not to wear the t.shirt in a work situation purely as I don't want you to get into trouble - it shouldn't be offensive, as it is clearly not, but I would be worried you would get hauled over the coals.

I agree with Pp that this is an aggressive act by infiltrating a women's group and actually accepting a position as leader. I would not be happy with this at all.

Exactly what @FunkyFunkyBeat12 said.

Nobody would genuinely wear that t-shirt to work, AND have the misfortune of having a women's group that they have to refer to that is run by a trans woman, surely?

I mean, the very coincidence of those two things AND you being 'conflicted'.

It reminds me of a pineapple upside down cake I once made. It fell apart as soon as you poked it with a fork.

Sounds a bit like screenshot-fodder does a bit doesn’t it? Would be a shame if sensible comments were taken out of context.

I agree with Pp that this is an aggressive act by infiltrating a women's group and actually accepting a position as leader. I would not be happy with this at all.

I agree with this. TRAs sometimes say to replace 'trans' with 'black'' and see how it sounds. If a support group for vulnerable BAME people was run by a white man who identified as black, how would you feel about him and referring vulnerable people to the group he was in charge of?

Just remembered the real befrocked Demis Roussos's nickname.

cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/aade45abdcd57e336335413b5e6103ca

A MtF heading up a women's group already strikes me as "appropriation" of a place which should be filled by a woman, so I don't think the OP is simply dealing with an "innocent" transgender person here.

It reminds me of a pineapple upside down cake I once made. It fell apart as soon as you poked it with a fork.

Indeed.

It all sounds very unlikely to me. And very convoluted. Not quite sure what sort of comment/screenshot the OP is expecting?

(Not quite sure what sort of comment/screenshot the OP is expecting?*
I think op presumed we'd all be caricatures - easy to bait. The responses were all a bit too practical in the end.

I've just re-read the OP and I'm a little more irritated, to be honest.

Framing the transwomen as being in a position that gender critical feminists would disagree with in the first place?

Then framing a feminist T-shirt as a passive/aggressive means of objecting to it.

Because the OP is assuming that objection to this transwoman is a gimmee, but avoiding them, talking to them or making a complaint isn't an option.

Only a fucking T-shirt

But then deciding the T-shirt would hurt their feelings, so 'what can I possibly do about it?'

Oh I know, I'll go on mumsnet, because I'm incapable of making one of the most insignificant decisions of all time

Old Crones example describes my discomfort exactly.

If the thread is potentially a target for screen shots, we're women who centre women and we're prioritising vulnerable women in our answers. What do they expect?!

Sorry - the issue isn’t about wearing my opinion on a t shirt; I worded that wrongly, it was more of a metaphor.

I see that some of you think I’m a TRA looking for something to take back somewhere - I absolutely am not.

I am, however, a feminist who has just begun to explore the trans issue because of the proposed gender recognition act. I have become gender critical in the last year and I understand why some are defensive.

I didn’t word my op in the way I meant, I don’t think. I’m not a newbie to MN - I have met many wonderful women here.

It's possible the OP has experienced so much gaslighting / coercive control on this issue that they don't see the elephant in the room and has fixated on the t-shirt as a way of expressing their natural gut instinct screaming 'this isn't right'.

The elephant in the room is of course that someone who is biologically male who is running a women's group for vulnerable women is throwing up so many Safeguarding red flags they could start a red flag bunting company. And showing a shockingly unfeminine lack of empathy for the feelings and safety of the vulnerable women involved too.

The analogy about a white man who id's as black running a group for vulnerable BME is excellent.

DemisRoussoss

Perhaps your opening post wasn't particularly clear. It did appear as though the T-shirt featured rather heavily.

If you're working with vulnerable women, OP, I suggest you mug up on reflective practice and worry more about where and how you signpost them and less about your t-shirts.

The volunteer ‘leader’ of the women’s group is obviously (to me) a mtf man.

This is one of the problems with the secrecy in this area. This person hasn't been introduced as 'trans', but as a woman. Nobody is being given a choice about whether a male born person, who may still have a penis, is an appropriate choice of leader for a support group for vulnerable women.

One of the examples in the Equality Act of an appropriate use of the exemptions for single sex services is a similar support group, and this is what could be applied here. But if nobody can actually mention whether or not someone is actually trans, how can the EA exemption be applied? This is why the EA is not fit for purpose as far as the PC of gender reassignment is concerned.

Datun - thanks for repeating what I just said!

LangCleg, thanks for explaining my job and missing my later post about the t shirt as a metaphor.

So it’s not about wearing the woman adult human female t-shirt. Could you just avoid this group? Do you have to introduce your vulnerable client to them?

OldCrone thanks for this - I think that’s what I’m wondering.

A metaphor? A metaphor for what? What is your actual dilemma?

That was a bit stroppy of me. It annoys me when people mislead others on purpose.

Unfortunately I don't know what the answer is, and I don't know how you can even discuss it with anyone without being labelled transphobic. Is there another group you could direct your vulnerable clients to instead?