Raising Boys

[Sexnotgender]

I’m staunchly gender critical and spend a lot of time lurking on here, not contributed a huge amount as I’m just generally overawed by the arguments presented and don’t feel I’d add much value.

However I gave birth to a beautiful little boy nearly 4 weeks ago and I’m interested in how I can raise him to be empathetic and kind and without male privilege in such a blatantly patriarchal society.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Congratulations!

I don't think we can raise our sons without male privilege, as that is something society at large bestows upon them. What we can do is raise them to be aware of it, so that they can do their bit to level the playing field.

Read them stories with female characters, encourage them to treat girls as equals, emphasise the things they have in common with girls rather than the differences, encourage them to explore facets of their own personalities that society teaches them to hide.

Teach them about consent, and to question the accepted hierachy in society.

We have to give them the tools and the desire to change the world.

Congratulations sexnotgender. Nothing to add to good advice from BelladonnaSolanum except to say that I am sure you will be a good role model for him in recognising that we can all do our best as individuals to work for fairness and equality, even if the system doesn’t always make it easy.

Thank you, great advice.

I’m so conscious not to raise an entitled man.

Last year we had some of my husbands family stay and my husband was ironing his shirt for a special event. His nephew (age 6/7) pipes up, why are you ironing that’s a woman’s job

Really, really don’t want to raise someone like that!

I don't know - it's hard - once they get to school they have to survive the patriarchal system in terms of the other boys, how they react and how they push them into line. They need the tools to do this well.

They need good self-esteem and resilience, encouragement, good role models and good education to survive being knocked back (I mean in general terms rather than the totalitarian 'need educating' terms).

I don't know - it's hard - once they get to school they have to survive the patriarchal system in terms of the other boys, how they react and how they push them into line.

True. I've been lucky so far, in that my son's school has been very accepting of him not fully fitting the boy stereotype (liking pink etc) And in fact the boys there are, for the most part, very caring. So there's less pressure on him than there might be - which has made my life easier.

I do wonder what it will be like as he ages, and the boys are more influenced by society around them.

I'm taking advantage of this time though to encourage him to have confidence in himself and his own judgement, to give him the tools to resist peer pressure.

Congratulations! I too am in the same boat, I have a 2 year old girl and six weeks ago had a wee boy. I am a staunch feminist and have a similarly minded husband. I want to avoid raising a boy like all the other men (husband excluded!) in my family who are sexists with brittle egos, huge senses of entitlement and poor me pity machines when they don't get their way. Equally I am worried I might go too far in trying to counter the patriarchy and end up making him resent feminism and women. If there are any books or blogs or MN threads you'd recommend it would be most welcome!

I know this may sound frivolous and trivial, but one thing DFIL did with DH was to teach him to catch balls really well from a young age. In fact he used to throw balls over the top of the house for DH to catch . (He did this for the girls in the family too - no discrimination there LOL). It is a really useful skill to have, impressed people and gives a feeling of success - it can even be used to help teach others. Even if you don't make the mark on the overt masculinity stakes, you will always be included in the cricket team

tootsweets are you part of my family

My husband is amazing but all his male relatives are wildly misogynistic! I’ve got another thread running in relationships about FIL.

Melroses DH will be putting his name down for the local cricket team soon I think! He’s South African and loves cricket.

You do not have the power to raise a son who is not sexist. If mothers had this power, sexism would have been over a long time ago. The power of the mother is a patriarchal lie (and notice how mothers are always blamed for any transgressions their children commit). It is very appealing to think that our sons won't be like that, we will 'raise them right' so that they won't be like that. But they will be like that. Maybe they won't think ironing is a 'woman's job' (my children have never even seen an iron haha) but they will be sexist in some way.

Your husband will have a much bigger impact on his ideas about masculinity and how to be a man in this society than you can, but even if your household is a Utopian model of equality, you can't control what is outside your front door. Once he gets older his peers will be his main teachers and he will inevitably be exposed to a huge amount of sexist media, including pornography. I know it sounds bleak, but you have to accept that you cannot fully protect him from this. Our sons will be forced into the masculinity box, brutalised by patriarchy and grow up to be sexists, to a greater or lesser degree. It's heartbreaking but true.

That doesn't mean we should throw up our hands in despair and say fuck it, because of course there are things we can do that might help a bit. These are some things I am doing / planning to do with my son (he's 18 months):
Read him books with female protagonists
Teach him to respect bodily autonomy (including his own - no forced kisses and hugs with relatives, no forced tickling)
No 'boys will be boys' nonsense
I consciously go out of my way to encourage praise any kindness or nurturing play in an effort to balance out other messages he'll be getting (obviously he plays all kinds of games and I praise him all the time, I just make a special effort to notice if he cuddles a doll or puts a teddy to bed or gives something to his sister)
Use female pronouns for animals and people when sex is unknown (e.g. 'the doctor' is always she - I know he will get plenty of reinforcement of the idea that doctors can be men elsewhere so I'm not worried about him getting the idea that he can't be a doctor)

When he gets older, encourage critical thinking about all media, point out sexism when we encounter it, talk to him about sex and relationships before the pornographers get to him, talk to him about pornography, try to make sure he is treated the same as his sister when it comes to helping around the house (tricky right now because he is not as physically capable as her), control media and internet access for as long as possible (no unsupervised internet browsing for a long time, obviously I'll work out the finer details of that at a later date).

''My husband is amazing but all his male relatives are wildly misogynistic!''
That might actually work out in your favour.

You cant undo the damage done by society, but you can vaccinate them. Most kids had an innate sense of fair play, so you can build on that.

Aw congratulations! I have two boys now and it's a big part of what led me to becoming gender critical.

I've just found some interesting articles on this which I posted at the end of a thread.

The book referenced is very much about how stereotypes mould brains according to a neuroscientist.

sonshinemagazine.com/ is a lovely site that's started to look at these things. The article on consent is useful. I do find Let Toys be Toys very good too.

It's very hard to challenge the stereotypes to be honest; it's amazing how quickly they pick up on it at nursery/school, but I don't think it's a huge issue as long as you're able to challenge things when they come up as needed.

Modelling things at home is always, for anything, for any child, the most effective thing you can do.

Most importantly though, don't get too bogged down by it of worry too much! Just enjoy your baby/ toddler/ child!

Thread I mentioned:

The Gendered Brain caused by biosocial straitjackets www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3520171-the-gendered-brain-caused-by-biosocial-straitjackets

This is a really interesting thread. We have a 4 year old boy and we are both feminist minded and thankfully most of our friends and family are.
We've always encouraged him to get involved in a wide range of activities - particularly drama, dance and music as we feel sport will be pushed on him enough at school - and ensure he reads and watches things with strong female characters. We also lead by example and make sure both parents do a range of chores so there are no 'boys' and 'girls' jobs.

He was recently obsessed with the Lego superhero girls film and I promised him he could buy some of their characters when we visited the Lego store in London. I was so disappointed to find they'd stopped selling the range because it wasn't popular.

my husband was ironing his shirt for a special event

My sons have never seen me touch an iron; dh irons his own shirts!

(I don't iron!)

I'll pop this here though more links on the thread I linked.

www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/upshot/how-to-raise-a-feminist-son.html

Also watch this 2 part documentary if you didn't manage when it was on.

Wonderful thank you for these suggestions! Magicmix, understand your point about the limits of my influence! Already with my 2 year old I'm getting used to her picking up concepts from nursery and am aware it will only get more pronounced. I don't want to overthink things but equally I've watched a very feminist aunt who has lived those values but never consciously discussed sexism and the patriarchy with her kids (e.g. she is the breadwinner, has a high powered job in a male industry etc). She is now mystified her son is a bit of a misogynist, I guess unaware of the weight of socialisation that came from his mates. So I want to make sure my husband and I engage our brains in the subject and don't assume it will go in by osmosis or by us modelling alone.

Raise your son just as you would raise a daughter. You are raising a child don’t worry about gender. You raise your children to be the best people they can be. And beware of making him feel guilty for being male, there is so much “anti boy” sentiment around these days. You only have to see the gender disappointment threads on here. And try not to let your beliefs about male entitlement cause issues for him.

There was a good r4 prog on the guilt aspect this week missy.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002r3v

What MissyB1 says, raise them the same. I don't consider the fact my eldest is a boy in any decision I make. I buy toys, clothes and games he likes. I take him to activities he likes and stretch his experiences in the same way I would a girl. Some stereotypically "boy" some "girl"
I teach him to be kind and considerate to everyone.
He is not a typical boy, he likes pink and doesn't like sport. Which has presented challenges at school but he has his own set of friends with the same interests and similar views. He actively laughs when he hears people describe things as "girls or boys" and he has a stock line about penis's stopping you play with things. He has also perfected "the look" he gives people if they say something about boys and girls.

Treat them as an individual and encourage them to grow their interests, be respectful of all and as missy says be the best person they can be - regardless of genitalia, thats what all of us should be doing.

Leading by example is the most important thing I think.

Letting them be children, play with what they want to play with, wear what they want to wear.

Sounds like you’ll have some good opportunities for discussions when he’s older thanks to the family!

I’ve never shied away from talking to my DCs about stereotypes/feminism/sexism.

I have boys and girls. They are young adults now and seem to be pretty decent people.

Congratulations sexnotgender. Mum of five boys here, attempting to raise mature men in a silly world.

Dolls for boys are a great way to teach nuturing skills at an early age, a quick Google will show you a mixed range. When we play with these I make sure the emphasis is on family and inclusion, which is important when you've lots of little people to consider. I refer to him as playing 'daddy' (obviously not every child has a visible father, but I've heard single parents use grandad as an alternative), because it's vital that they understand that males have a role that involves nurture and care.

When it comes to clothing, we rely almost exclusively on hand me downs, so we don't have the luxury of being selective, so I've made sure that the dressing up box has a few traditionally 'girly' clothes, face paints etc so they can play and express themselves outside their fixed blue jeans and car t shirts 'uniform'. I'd also say that I'm happy to let them grow their hair too, but in reality head lice and thread worms make that a pipe dream.

I also get my kids to help me with housework, always have done since they were old enough to walk to the washing basket. We constantly emphasise that family life is a team effort (god, even I'm cringing at how corney that sounds).

Good post BTW, I'll be checking back in for more tips.

Despite the influence from school friends and outside the home, I think what happens at home has a huge influence.
Unfortunately, I do most of the cooking, because I am at home at the moment, which is not ideal for setting a stereotype.
However, I would never irons DHs shirts, or sew his clothes (mostly reattaching buttons, he does it himself).
He does all the washing up, some vacuuming and some washing.
I do some of "male" jobs like lawn mowing, hedge trimming, decorating.
I think it sets a good example.

I'd also say that I'm happy to let them grow their hair too, but in reality head lice and thread worms make that a pipe dream.

Hand on heart now, do you honestly think you'd say that if you had daughters?

We all have hang ups from being raised in a sexist society but it's important to look them head on and be honest with ourselves.